Housekeeping: As is posted on the EMF Message Board page, this forum is for support, sharing opinions and experiences for those who have left RSE and have doubts and concerns about their tenure there. It is NOT a place for proselytizing for RSE, JZK Inc or Ramtha. Play nicely or your post will be sent to cyberspace time-out for all eternity. The disclaimer for EMF is located on this page http://enlightenmefree.com/disclaimer.html and all posters agree to the terms of the disclaimer. Be sure you've read it before posting.
You may also want to visit a complementary forum at FACTNet http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/779.html
If you wish to use a Spell Checker, you may wish to use this free one: http://www.jacuba.com/
so now it is "ask dr greg"?!
the site is programmed to prevent copying of text.
i did anyway...
"Ramtha has told his audiences that our sun is part of a larger orbiting body around an even greater sun. In other words, we are not an independent galaxy rotating around an independent sun, but rather a part of a greater system rotating around a blue sun. Ramtha went on to elaborate that our sun is not hot, and that he would dance in the middle of the sun with some of his students at some point in the future. However, being in the middle of the sun may or may not imply that it is hollow. Maybe there is a cosmic disco!"
what seems to be the problem ? you don't want to dance in the center of the sun with the big guy ?
spelling word for the day
no friggin way. you know what the center of the
sun is like? it is so dense that it takes 10 thousand
years for a proton moving at the speed of light -
ricochetting in that convoluted maelstrom - to reach
the surface! 10 thousand years...that is dense! that
is the mother of all tanks. no thank-you-mam!
sounds like you better write a sequel to greg's book.
did you know that the scientists that were interviewed in the movie, What The Bleep Do You Know?,
complained because they were each interviewed for many hours, and their comments were edited down to about ten minutes each - presented in a way that was 180 degrees opposite of what they said in the full length interviews.
there are a number of websites where they speak out about it. the producer's claimed artistic license.
what a puffed up way to sugar coat what it was ... censoring what they really said !
what's really scarey is that roger ebert was attracted
anyway, i am an artist. science isn't really my bag.
the lightning in the brain was cool. the scene
with marlee in the mirror was transcendental. the
rest of it is fading fading....
when I saw 'what the bleep' I found it hard to look at the blonde woman...(I didn't have that reaction to anyone else in the film) what she said wasn't bad, but it was the energy I felt from her eyes and mouth that were disturbing to me. As the film went on, I found myself averting my eyes so I wouldn't have to look at her! (don't look at the 'dirty channel'!) At the end of the film, I was surprised to find that she was JZ/Ramtha...and I remembered all the questionable stories I had heard about her over the years.
so, I wrote Dr. Fred Alan Wolf and asked him what he thought of the movie ...and he answered me with a email saying that he didn't have any problem with it at ALL.
this may be an interesting viewpoint to consider...or not...
leslie said, "Most of the scientists are New Age types, except for Dr. David Alpert, a philosopher of physics, who wrote an article later saying how he was misused. The anecdotal report about the Natives not seeing Columbus’ ships is utter Euro-American trash. Most of the indigenous people of the Americas and surrounding islands had boats and would know what a big boat was. The Carib Indians traded with each from island to island by boat. The “experiment” about water was not scientifically done and never repeated. The water crystals are snowflakes and every snowflake is distinct and so it proves nothing. Spirituality connected to quantum physics is not a new idea. Read THE TAO OF PHYSICS by Fritjof Capra and THE DANCING WU LI MASTERS by Gary Zukov. Both these books have been around for a long, long time Better yet read books by Brian Greene, Stephen Hawkings, and Michio Kaku. They’ll trip you out more profoundly than this propaganda film from the Ramtha followers. This movie is just the New Age equivalent of creationism."
....and personally, I agree. I think she summed it all up quite succintly.
"The anecdotal report about the Natives not seeing Columbus’ ships is utter Euro-American trash."
Australian petroglyph's of Sailing ships. .
Nourlangie, 31km southeast of the Bowali
images of European sailing ships,
petroglyphs, a large sailing ship moving through water, ...
North America petroglyphs
shows a vessel with blunt bow and raised deck, the people depicted are wearing long waisted coats, high boots and wide-brimmed hats - clothing typical of the 1600s.
oops ! i meant "succinctly".
i remember hearing "ramtha" express his distaste when he stated that the audience did not have a passion for history. his daughter, jz, did have such a passion.
well, frankly, i don't recall a poll ever being taken on who did or did not care for history. so then i would assume, perhaps that the Big Guy KNOWS that the audience didn't, overall, give a hoot about history.
if "he" did, and he said s/he DID, then why didn't the all knowing Big Guy get these facts straight about the ships ?
Ahhh, one might deduce that there isn't a Big Guy !
jeez. and you guys accuse me of sliding off topic!
you're correct. you did slide off topic. so did we.
but, we'll start a new thread !
all is well.
that's called living off the grid. we are so free
that we can't help ourselves. we ooze out of moulds.
once you breathe the air outside of the r-grid there
is no going to those stupid little rectangles!
This may be a good place to clarify this whole topic of “sliding off topic”.
There will be a certain amount of “slide” on this forum..
Your new thread has led into some interesting territory..
Yes.. it slid off your topic thread… but not from the purpose of this forum.
Whereas your last post on Christels “The Destructive Early Years of RSE”
was bordering on venting against whatchamacallit post,
Unfortunately this may cause folks to give up on that thread.
A more appropriate way would be to contact them by email.. directly..
Better still… lets keep our heads above the narcissistic indoctrinations of “Ramtha”
And reach a hand to those caught in the ditch..
And back to Doctor Greg..
sorry i was such a disturbance.
as your were.
uh, that doesn't read well. change that to
What the bleep was an interesting film. I saw it from the perspective of having read some of the teachings but never attended shcool. My friends saw it from the perspective of having nothing to do with ramtha. On one (very important) hand, the movie was WAY progressive and not in alignment with the common scrupulous scientist. I agree whole heartedly. The one gentleman and perhaps others who complained about thier views being misconstrued in the film, are wtihout doubt correct. We must remember that science and the scientific method are based on the findings of pure fact. THere is no evidence to conclude that larger bodies of matter are subject to the laws of quantum mechanics. There is to say 'a missing link' between the two. That is not to say that what all men of true heart wish quietly in their soul to be true, is what science has concluded as fact. (i know this is in the movie, but it sprung from my own thinkin before the movie exsisted): The world as we knew it at one time was FLAT... now, we all know that is absurd. If quantum particles make up atoms and ultimately atoms make up our very bodies, is it not at least partially plausible to theororize that large bodies of matter (such as our bodies) are governed by the laws of quantum mechanics/physics???
I would say that it is. So in that sense I think that the film was very inspiring in an extreme progressive fasion. Such as a very good novel that rings true in your heart, where mythology reins and in some sense gives credence to the importance of the dreams of man. Even if those dreams are far beyond reach in 'everyday life'. I think that if it werent for the beauty of mythology and dreams of what if, this life would be plain and desolate.
All of us were drawn to 'Ramtha's' teachings because we have a deep connection with the higher meanings, mythologies and supposed purposes of the life of humainty. We feel a sense of something more than the common accepted mode of being and thinking (which look around you, obviously is not healthy).
The true happiness of man is deeply enrooted within his sense of meaning about himself, and the whole of existance. This opinion of mine is supported by the additional view that Cults opperate and are succsessful because of this intrinsic need of man to find meaning in life.
Cults feed off of that need. And that is UN IMPECCABLE and dirty. But we must also have compassion that these people that are the heads of cults are so low that they need such a powerful identity in order to feel alive.
The point I was at the begining hopeing to drive home to some of you is thus:
I know many of you are trying to justify why and what makes JZ /Ramtha a fraud. THe reason I say 'Justify' is that in that kind of situation you are partially still entwined in the identity of that cult construct, so part of you is defending your new position as opposing the old 'cult' identity within you. And so by finding every bit that you can to justify and make 'JZ/RAMTHA/ the orginization' wrong you feel you are making headway to find a substansial identity that is more healthy. I applaud your efforts. Cults are unhealthy. THough I might bring this point of 'justifying' (for healthy reasons non the less) to a head, in order for me to make my point:
the information proported in the film was not necessarily ill. I personally loved the film, I am also very scrutinizing and objective when interpreting any information. I found it broadening and wonderful to go the length beyond the fact to the possibilities that quantum mechanics implicates for bodies ultimately 'made up' of the atoms, made up of particles that factually are governed by such physics.
Though!!!!!! I think it is NOT APPLAUSIBLE that some of the scientists' names and credentials were used outside of their own beliefs and individual views. That is EXTREMELY disrespectful.
My views here are not to credit or discredit JZ/Ramtha or 'the school'. I am simply interested that my fellowmen who are rich in heart, do not become disillusioned to the magnificent existance and endless possibilities available to them and inherent to all humans. Do not sell yourselves short just because JZ has used the good teachings and knoweldege available to humanity for her own greedy and insane purposes.
Do not give up who you are inside and the magic that rides on the breath of your sweet and fleshy mouths because some ******* lunatic has used -as someone stated in another post- 'truth to bait the trap'.
Keep alive your dreams of mystery, they really have nothing to do with 'ramtha'.
They are intrinsic to humanity, for all ages they have been the driving force of good men and women to be great. **** Ramtha, LOVE THIS MAGICAL EXISTANCE!!!!
-an ordinary human, who loves all of you equaly, though we have never met, how could I not love what I am?
it is definitly a choise to belive in fairytales,ufos,conspiraties.its part of the human culture to have inspirational storys.but its also a sane and healthy move to start digging in your real field for geting a real harvest and not digg at the end of the rainbow for the imaginary pott of gold.
The point I was at the begining hopeing to drive home to some of you is thus:"
Thanks for the lecture.
(esp from those of us who have EXPERIENCED being in a cohersive persuasive group-which, btw, you have not)
"If quantum particles make up atoms and ultimately atoms make up our very bodies, is it not at least partially plausible to theororize that large bodies of matter (such as our bodies) are governed by the laws of quantum mechanics/physics???"
I am not a quantum expert. However, my understanding of quantum vrs, classical is that the QM theory CREATES a boundry of sorts between the two.
So, it does not appear to be even partially plausible. It seems to me that if it was it would be removing the boundry of QM which is the theory itself??
What are you basing your information on besides the WTB film??
If you are simply taking what the film said and using that for evidence, all I can say is the old adage "garbage in, garbage out".
Your assumption is like someone who says "the moon has a great physical effect on water, our bodies are 70% water and so, the reason people feel strange on the full moon is because of the gravitational effect of the moon."
Google that Idea and you will find out why that idea or "theory" is mistaken.
PS Just had a look at "Dr. (????) Gregs site. What a bunch of malarkey!!! looks like he has been given free reign to inturpret r/jzs nonsense.
Anyone heard why he has not created some hair for himself???
Perhaps he created it to be gone so that he could expose his scalp to the rays of the sun which r/JZ is going to take him soon. That way his hair wouldn't catch on fire.......
JTR said, "looks like he has been given free reign to inturpret r/jzs nonsense."
He must be in a special club
because students have been told many times to keep the teachings pure and NOT to ever, ever, share them with others. Because in doing so, the teachings would be run through our own dirty neuronet and they'd be made IMPURE.
Greg ought to hush up so he doesn't taint other people.
We were told not to tell incoming students anything, either, for that reason.
Make the students feel/believe they are inferior enough not to talk, so they shut up. Yet, those same inferior students are supposed to believe the UNDELIVERED CLAIM that they can surely attain christhood by simply following the teachings. Oh, that **** carrot again !
CONTROL, CONTROL, CONTROL. Let's call a spade a spade. They wanted to INDOCTRINATE the incoming students according to their own method and on their own time....AFTER they $$$$$$$$$$ delivered.
....but Greg is an appointed T E A C H E R
( as was Audrey aka Grandmother and Joe )
also, Greg is now SELF appointed "Dr"
really ? self appointed ? i don't know his educational background.
perhaps something is listed about it, on the radio program he's talked on.
i know i've heard "ramtha" refer to him as 'doctor' greg, so i assumed he was either calling him a nickname as he does certain others from the "in crowd", or that he earned the degree. i've never been favorably impressed with the man, so i never cared to know/find out.
Quote from Ramtha.
"Many of you in this audience have a desire to be in the position of those on stage. (referring to staff members)
"This is a great mistake".
"I keep my enemies closest to me for a reason"
Yes, I also recall Ramtha saying that, a number of times.
well there is a lot of anger here. that is ok. all i have to say is the things I say are meant in love, and I dont wish to defend my opinions... they inspire me, and some peole I speak to. THe thing is I have been reading and learning and experiencing wonderous things far before ever comming in contact wtih 'ramthas' books. I have applied things I never officially learned about... that ivenever heard ramtha mention. Out of the innocense of childhood 'metaphysical' things were taking shape in my life before i had ever heard the word 'metaphysical'. If you want to take an angry posistion that is fine... I was freely sharing my opinion. I agree that anger is an essetial part of healing. Feel free to be angry at me. Honestly I love you still. I am not here to justify anything, I am here to be free. :) I wish I could look at you all in your sweet faces and hug you tightly. Maybe you would know who I am, where I am comming from and what my intentions are, if you could see my heart.
Go forth and be whatever you need to be. You are already free.
Your posts are sincere… and I thank you for that.
Often.. we are dealing with events and issues that have undermined our very life foundations…
Be cautious not to readily dismiss others that have responded to your posts as being angry or suchlike….
They may be just the ticket out of a Twilight deception Zone we never knew existed..
Greg has a four year degree.
Perhaps there is confusion of anger being equated with honest, forthright, outspoken experiences. Some folks have a position that if a person isn't pleased with RSE, they ought not to speak about it, but they should SILENTLY "move on". Says who ? ...smile...
I don't know of a single poster on here, who has not had at least some "metaphysical" experiences. (Gifts of the spirit, intuition, precognition, etc., etc, whatever one wants to call it)
Whatever they want to call those experiences, they are not related to attending RSE. That, too, has been posted before. I mention this, because perhaps someone missed that fact.
To each their own.
To the question: where is eveidence of quantum awesomness outside of what the bleep-
There are a lot of books articles etc. pre what the bleep on these subjects and how they pertian to humans in an awesome way. GO check some out! Absolutly Fascinating information! So I love science, in school microbiology was a favorite.
As for anger, I just dont have anything else to say. Im not saying every post is angry, but well anhow, like I said there is nothing more to say about that. I wish everyone well.
Let me call myself the underdog of goodness :D
p.s. Im glad this site exists
and David, I think you are a very cool person. Thank you for your kindness.
The Real - I hope I dont offend you but I am really tired of this type of superior nonsense from people searching for the meaning of life and "higher" pursuits.
You say "We feel a sense of something more than the common accepted mode of being and thinking (which look around you, obviously is not healthy)" Really? the majority of people in the world follow some sort of religion (new age or traditional) all searching for something more, this is the world you get when everyone is looking instead of living.
Why the need to search for the mysteries of life? Can't you enjoy the experience of living. Why not relax, if there is something to experience outside this life, it will happen regardless of whether you search or not. The World is such a beautiful place, and life is so exciting and fun and full of joy, stop looking at the negative.
We can all make our life exactly what we want, right here right now, thats why we are on this journey, if you keep focusing on other things you will miss the wonderful life you could lead.
The Real says, "There are a lot of books articles etc. pre what the bleep on these subjects and how they pertian to humans in an awesome way. GO check some out! Absolutly Fascinating information! So I love science, in school microbiology was a favorite.
As for anger, I just dont have anything else to say. Im not saying every post is angry, but well anhow, like I said there is nothing more to say about that. I wish everyone well."
You assume that we haven't read enough ? I've read and have purchased hundreds of metaphysical books, including those that merge "science and spirituality". That doesn't mean it's "scientific". It's still pseudoscience. That's also not to say that it's "bad". But, it's not, imo, SCIENCE. I also studied science in college, at the undergraduate level, and also graduate level. I'm not uneducated in that area. I also don't believe one has to have a degree to be INFORMED.
As another posted already said, it's one thing to address the metaphysical topic from the standpoint of pseudoscience. It's quite another to call it FACT, when it is not.
If you know of a scientific source that cites any metaphysical event as science fact, please do share it with us !
My aim is never to coerce anyone to Believe somthing... that is a waste of time, if you do not agree with the underlying message in my post then it ws not meant for you.... I understand that SCIENCE is a very scrutinous and objective field and that there is absolutely no Factual proven experimental evidence for the claims that such 'psuedo' science as you termed it, has validity. I do not disagree here. I am myself an intelectual being. Yet I also have HEART. I dream. So perhaps it would be more correct for me to address these things as theoretical science. Which I find wonderful. I think it is awesome to wonder beyond fact. I also feel it is important in human development to do so. If no one ever dreamed beyond was was already fact, how would there ever be new discoveries. People building ;flying machines' were thought crazy... but they dreamed and created and dreamed and created until it became 'fact' for the whole of the world.
I am not trying to debunk anyones intelligence here or how much they have read or studied. I was simply expressing my joy about dreaming beyond fact. I am obviosly bias, and must say that I think theoretical science in the feild of quantum mechanics and string theory does have a valid springboard of possibility based in already known facts or the lack of or missing parts to the puzzle that these theories attempt to fill.
Not everything must be an argument you know, for there to be lively discussion. I do however enjoy debating!
To aussie girl:
Lovely lady, I am not searching for anything, but I do enjoy discovering much. thankyou for your sincere concern for my life, I could feel it in your words... and thought that perhaps you are wanting to say them or have said them to someone close to you. The magic and the mystery are in everyday life... I was not very discriptive when I said something about the 'normal mode of being'. Let me elaborate...
I simpy meant the state of affairs in the world at large. ( what I am about to say is not in a whiny voice, but just calmly matter of factly) Countries are at War, genocide is a current issue, rape, torture and other such violences are common on a large scale, as a species we continue to harm ourselves through many means, There is corporate globalism rearing its ugly head in every direction, there are organizations that continue to encroach on the souvrienty of even small villages in nations where their only legacy is perhaps the seeds that their family through generations has perfected and these above goverment legislation orginizations are working to patent the seed (to own it) and to own the rights to their municipalities ( their water, etc) to where if they want to grown their own seed they have to pay a percentage to the patent owner.... and other such attrocities... I really could go on and on but that is another topic.
What I meant was that the basic humdrum of civilized life as we know it....isnt working. If it were the harmony would be reflected on the large scale. Families break up, incest, abuse, addiction, suicide is all very muc alive and well even in our very own backyard.
So to long for something greater I think is a natural reaction, when you take the time to look at the big picture. I go about my days mostly in joy and a lot of curiosity and some adversity... to me it is all wonderful, life IS a journey... not a destination.... as you very beautifully commented.
I dont sit around all day and whine and despair about 'the negative'. I am curious about it and that curiosity fuels my ongoing discoveries. I am glad to find new and exciting information, theories, fantasies, or facts to think and dream upon. I am aslo glad to sit back and enjoy the sounds of a bustling city, or a peaceful forest. I really just LOVE this life. So in short ITS ALL GOOD!
thankyou everyone for your responses :) happy trails!
"The Real - I hope I dont offend you but I am really tired of this type of superior nonsense from people searching for the meaning of life and "higher" pursuits. "
and whatchmacallit writes:
"as if you think we have not read enough already??"
you are definitely coming off as holier than us all
along with a sincere concern for worldly concerns.
And since you have not the years of experience, esp in regards to RSE, you just might want to re-adjust a bit in some fashion.