Hello,
I’m not a student of RSE and I never was. I’m not comfortable with groups of any kind, it doesn’t matter if its sports or religious groups etc. So for me –luckily- there was never a possibility to get “sucked into “ something like the Ramtha school . However, a friend of mine is a recent Beginner student, and we talk about the things I have read on the Factnet and now on this page. (We are from Germany and she doesn’t speak English, so I have to translate the things for her).

I do believe there are things behind this world so to speak because I’m very intuitive and usually I make decisions this way and not through intellectual analysis. If I do it intuitively, everything works out for me. And I also believe that there are “unusual” information and they can come through different ways. For example Paulo Coehlo told in an interview that he has the impression that the books are written through him, but not from him and I personally
feel very comfortable with the Jane Roberts / Seth material. This are just some background information about me. I post because I have a question regarding this:

I recently came across someone who told me, that in the beginning there really was a “Ramtha” but that JZ got “carried away” (my words) and that she is a very greedy person and she has for a long time faking it to keep her multimillion dollar empire going.
I have heard this also from other sources who knew the Ramtha of the very early years, that the teachings were quite different, very loving, heavy accent etc, and that suddenly that changed.
Could someone who knows about this, tell me more? When it changed etc.
It could be true, because, although JZ is heavy selling everything she can sell, she is not selling the very old books like “Love yourself into Life”, the Douglas Mahr books and the White book which came out first (I believe) in 1985 (so it must contain earlier teachings from before 1985, also I think they have recently published this book again). And a lot of people love especially the White book and that brings them to the Ramtha school. Couldn’t it be, that this was the real stuff, and everything that came afterwards is fake? There seems to be a break in the mid 80’ and then the other “teaching” started about the earth changes etc. Could someone tell me, when exactly the break occurred?

Thank you and I wish you very well with this homepage
Ivan

I forgot something,
when -as I assume- this thing no is a fake business, how much do the teachers know? or her family or boyfriend? Could they be close by and not recognize a thing? Joe Dispenza in a recent video interview is still heavily promoting the school?

There is a diversity of perspectives among the many people I know regarding was there ever a "real" Ramtha. When I left in '93 the consensus among those I knew who'd left RSE was that "Ramtha" left with the by invitation only 'event' known as "The Gathering of the Eagles". Initially, listening to that tape, I agreed -- for a while. The more I listened to it, the more I "got" there never was a Ramtha, and that there was a recognizable repeated pattern of abuse in this, and all the "teachings" - not the info, but the presentation. (Within the next day or so I'll be posting a comparison of the cycle of abuse with "Ramtha" teachings.) After I left I spoke with Glen Cunningham who had been a personal Guard for JZ. There was no Ramtha.
The "Teachings" have changed 180 degrees from the early days/the "White Book". From a 'God present now within' that all you need do is desire to know - without the aid of disciplines teachers gurus or groups. It's a totally different framework now - that did change in '88/'89. (again, I'll soon be posting a comparison)
From someone who worked on JZ's staff: - there were discussions of what to do now with Ramtha - after she'd moved from "Dialogues" to "Intensives" and had worked the earth changes/economic collapse thing to death. and whaLAAA - the "School of Ancient Wisdom" was born.
There are a number of stories from as far back as the '80's of JZ reading a book which became a Ramtha teaching.
Recently I met a woman who dated one of JZ's sons, and ate at the family home - there was laughter at the suckers giving their money to see Ramtha and making the Knight's rich.
Certainly follow the link on this website to interviews with Jeff Knight - or go to google/videos - Jeff Knight.
There are dozens of stories of people's witnessing obvious indications that there isn't a Ramtha.
Everything that Ramtha has taught, teaches can be found in their original source material in a clearer cleaner purer form. All of "Ramtha's" "teachings is in printed material. It is claimed that Ramtha inspired the writing of the books that contain what he teaches. There are a number books from which the teachings are taken word for word that are not sold at RSE; and a number of sources - such as the Edgar Cayce readings, that are not referenced.
The bottom line, in one sense, is so what if there was is or isn't. Who or what ever the Ramtha phenomena is, it is causing unnecessary pain for the personal financial gain of one person. It is abusive in its presentation. It uses manipulative techniques to hook people into continuing to stay in an abusive environment. It only requires 'standing back' one little bit to hear/see objectively.
Blessings to your and your friend.
Trust your intuition. Love your friend.

i was there only 5 years.i came as a believer.jz acting needs a wile to look through.but after 5 years listening i heard here lieing and pretending.she knows very well to present herself.in all this years i never saw evidence of ramtha.she truly has powers.but for me it was quite disapointing to see how spiritual corruption goes.i wish i would have just flow in a few times because you learn everthing you need to know in the first few events.the rest is squecing money out of you.

Graced, that would be really helpful, if you could do a comparison between the early teachings and now and if you could put a time frame on it. I'm trying to figure out some things for my understanding.

At what year was the "The Gathering of the Eagles". I couldn't find this on the internet in relationship to Ramtha?

I have already seen the Jeff Knight Video but I can't say that I liked or trusted him. He seems to have lived very comfortable for several years with the Ramtha/JZ lie and never came forward with this only after he couldn't get what he wanted (more money) So they seem to have deserved each other ;-)

I also have the impression that she is putting together things from different sources and labels them as Ramtha teachings and she seems to have an ability to pick up what the people want to hear: at the moment neuroscience and quantum physics. But I wonder how somebody can have such a big business and everything is based on a lie? Why hasn't there been someone from her close circle who comes forward and tells the truth about this? How can this secrecy be maintained for so long? Are the stuff and the teachers involved in the deception or are they unknowing "victims" in her scheme? And she must study a lot of books to be "up to date" and she also must have an ability to recite without a script?

I aarived in the Yelm area in February of 1989 enthusiastic about the teachings. People were already saying than that Ramtha had left and now it was JZ. Some students were very unhappy with what had gone on. Coming from another country and being uninformed about anything that had gone on locally I assumed at the time that they were just disgruntled customers for their own reasons. If I had more information available I would most certainly have reconsidered attending.
I do not think anyone knows when the so called "break" occurred. The above is the first I am aware of. Everytime something annoys the customers of RSE there is another rumour going around that Ramtha has left and it is just JZ acting. There have been some incidents where huge numbers of customers have left. One such incident was when Ramtha accused 5 current students of being "traitors" for going to a channel operating across the road from RSE.

>>> One such incident was when Ramtha accused 5 current students of being "traitors" for going to a channel operating across the road from RSE.<<<

and why would an ascended God be threatened by students going to any other channelers ?
a jealous God?? hahaaha

why would a human being be threatened by students going to any other channelers ?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ivan - The "Gathering of the Eagles" event was July 22, 1988. There are still people attending and on RSE staff who were there. There are a number of taped events/talks no longer available. Ex. "The War on Valued Life" - 1983. That was one of the anti-gay phases - when Ramtha said that AIDS was caused by anal intercourse, and 90 percent of all homosexuals would be dead within a decade. Then came the Strkker Report - that AIDS was created by the govt/grey men. The tape was no longer available.
Or, the "Honolulu Dialogue" video - which launched JZKInc from living rooms to hotel conference rooms --- Someone pointed out all the discrepancies between the interview JZ had with Les Sinclair and JZ's autobiography.
More recently, it's my understanding that the videos "Where Angels Fear to Tread" and "Two Paths" are no longer available.
It may be a week or so before I can get the specific comparison thing done.