It is quite apparent upon investigation that lawsuits involving JZ Knight Inc., or lawsuits that are threatened, all involve an element of commerce. That is someone is making or intending to make a profit from the copyrighted teaching material. It is also observed by me that lawsuits intended are given a warning to the potential recipient.

To speak up and express one's viewpoint is a right under the USA constitution. Many are so intimidated by the prospect of legal action by JZ Knight's lawyers that they have become malleable, compliant people who no longer stand up for their rights, or perhaps, they believe that under the RSE dictatorship they do not have any.

Welcome to Orwell's Brave New World.

With all due respect Christel - it is more than just those who seem to be using JZK Inc. material for commercial use that invokes less than Christ like behavior from their fearless CEO. Perhaps because you don't live in Yelm you don't know some of the stories. One of the biggest is Thunder Market - the only "health food" and supplement store in Yelm - run by the "Thunder Family" who moved here from CA to be near the School. Carolyn, who ran the store primarily, is very knowledgeable about heatlh issues and supplements. Apparently she was getting alot of attention from RSE customers seeking her advise. Apparently she also started doing "Union Ceremonies" for couples. JZ Knight's Ramtha told their customers that Thunder Market was selling drugs and not to go there and their rent was suddenly raised. Not coincidentally, Thunder Market was located next to JZ Knight's store. When Thunder Market had its 'going out of business' sale, JZ Knight's Ramtha suddenly called a 'special event' - so noone would be available to go to the sale. Then JZ Knight's Ramtha started marrying people.
Other people have been fired from their jobs because they ****** JZ off.
Carroll Cobb was giving classes to help people understand the science JZ Knight's Ramtha taught - and got kicked out of the 'inner circle'.
These are just a few specifics. The fear to speak out is based on too many similar incidents. The issue for JZ, apparently, is not as much the commercial use as someone else getting attention, someone else being perceived as knowing as much or more as she/Ramtha.
ps Thunder Market had to put signs on their shelves: Shoplifting is NOT manifesting.

You are correct I have not heard some of the stories. I had not heard the Thundermarket one. I have heard RSE staff have been sacked but have not heard detailed reasons other than Dr. Joe and Audrey Wolfe.

Does anyone know just why former RSE staff members who object to what they witness do not speak up?

Christel,

I know that they sign paperwork as a condition of their "employment" (such as it is). I wonder how much of their silence may be due to that, or fear, or both.

It would be wonderful if they would speak out. We've seen and heard enough to know that things are very wrong. I can just imagine what they've heard.

I have heard some stories, and they aren't good. The staff is afraid of JZ. Apparently, they are blind to the fact that they have given their power away to her. Exactly the opposite of what the teachings says to do - keep your own power.

One of the reasons former staff members do not speak up is because they may have deep feelings for Ramtha and feel conflicted between their feelings for Ramtha and their feelings for Judy.
Another is that Judy acts out tyrannical behavior which is well known and generates a lot of fear. I know a loyal ten year employee who was fired and one of the last things Judy screamed at her was, "I'll do everything in my power to make sure that you never collect unemployment." Scary stuff.

Inquisitive, I know students also who have deep feelings for Ramtha and do not like the way things are administrated one bit. Their feelings for Ramtha do prevent them speaking up. To be honest and loving to Ramtha is to tell the truth to Ramtha.

Unfortunately because of their feelings they allow themselves to be subjegated by both Ramtha and the RSE organization.

There are concepts well known on the earth such as the effects of excessive alcohol intake and the effects of unsuitable influences in one's environment. It is well known the effects of role models on children.

The Ramtha on the stage in recent years is often far from the loving exhibition in the early years. (If you take out the Earth changes Factor and the destruction it caused.)

Unfortunately because of their feelings they allow themselves to be subjegated by both Ramtha and the RSE organization.

The cussing drunkard on the stage is not benefitting anyone. There are lots of places in the world were you can get that type of presentation for FREE. Commonplace concepts are being presented as enlightenment. The other face of Ramtha has a respectful presentation however the evidence substantiates that what is presented does not work.

I have personally witnessed a long time student who drank very little prior become an alcoholic. There are also known indications in this person of affect on the liver from the excessive drinking. That is not the effect of a loving teacher.

Inquisitive stated:

"I know a loyal ten year employee who was fired and one of the last things Judy screamed at her was, "I'll do everything in my power to make sure that you never collect unemployment." Scary stuff."

Your unemployment system is different in the USA to Australia. That statement if it was made in Australia would be a very stupid act of intitimidation because ex employers could never intervene unless they knew the person did not qualify lawfully. I do not know if this threat could be carried out or not in the USA.

What I do know is that the attorney employed by JZK Inc. is a manipulator of words and an intimidator. He states things that are not true. Perhaps in this case knowledge could diffuse the threat?

Christel wrote..
Does anyone know just why former RSE staff members who object to what they witness do not speak up?

A very good question,
Misguided loyalty and unfounded supernatural fears plays a big part in why staff members do not speak out, in the schizophrenic world of JZ Knight, some staff members feel their “love” for Ramtha would be compromised if they spoke out against JZ Knight, that the all knowing, all powerful Ramtha knows best.
This aura of supernatural power also silences criticism instilling a deep fear
they will be punished and brought down.
There is a fear of losing friends, loved ones and their community, fear they will fail and be left behind and heavens forbid that they will age and die.
Fear.. fear.. and fear all dressed up as loyalty, learning and enlightenment.
From what I understand… “correct me if I'm wrong”….
there are three stages of clinical narcissism, the first is healthy, everybody needs a certain amount of self preservation, the second is recognized as selfishness and unkindness, the third is the extremely destructive and dangerous, Hitler would be clinically diagnosed as a third level narcissist and sociopath.
I recommend a movie titled Downfall, it portrays last three weeks of Hitler's life in his “UG” bunker… Anyway to stay on topic….
On one occasion I remember Vicky Cady standing on stage shouting abuse at a thousand bewildered and exhausted students, somebody shouted back “I did not come halfway across the world to be abused by you, he then rolled up his gear and walked out, leaving a stunned silence in the arena, at the time I wrestled with my thoughts.. Was he a just quitter who just didn't get it? Or was he wiser than the rest of us?
Still on the subject of Vicky Cady..…
I remember a fellow student hosting a channel to her Yelm home,
she invited “free of charge” a handful of fellow students to attend an evening.
Such was the anger of JZ Knight that she sent Vicky Cady to harass the occupants with a megaphone.. Yes.. a megaphone.
Vicky stood outside the house and threatened those inside with expulsion from RSE unless they left the house immediately.
As a footnote…
Recently… I was told by a close friend of an incident that happened around the same time… he was invited to a Yelm address to hear a “channel” speak, he was very impressed with her words of enlightenment and advice, later in the evening she suddenly turned to my friend and said would you come with me please I need to talk to you in private, they went to a back room, the woman was very upset and exclaimed… I am leaving; I cannot do this anymore.. I am making all this up.. She asked my friend to explain to the group what she had just told him and left.

Another good question to ask and understand is..
Why we did not speak up at the time?

I remember, not all that long ago, Michelle Marie standing on stage with "Ramtha". He was hugging her and having her tell a story about something. The conversation turned, in part, to Michelle doing computer work for JZ. A comment that she made was,addressed to "Ramtha", "I'm more afraid of her (JZ) than I am of you."

Hmmmm...

Another thing I remember was from some years ago. I was sitting near a corner, next to a staff person. As this man (A) was sitting down, prior to an event starting, another staff person (B) came over to him, quite upset. A was questioning B about why he had told JZ that something was done a certain way. It was NOT the way she wanted it done, and now A knew he was going to be called on the carpet by JZ. He explained to B how this innocent oversight happened, and he had wished B would have presented the entire story to JZ, so that A would not now be in line to get her "disapproval". The blatant fear that they were both experiencing, especially A, who had it ringing in his voice and actions, was just pathetic.

There are laws to protect employees from abusive or intimidating employers. Part of me want to say, "Duh, get out of there.", but part of me, in my heart, knows that they are blind due to their overall fear, and especially as has been mentioned, the fear of abandonment or retribution, by The Big Guy. Or, because they love "Ramtha", they tolerate JZ.

I went through all of these things in my own mind, before I finally quit the school the end of 2005. I've been working through it during 2006, and now I am through it. I came to the conclusion that if there is a Ramtha and he allows all of the negativity to go on, from JZ (in the various ways it happens), then he is also accountable. So, I feel no loyalty to him beyond the tuition I paid for the services I received.
I think Christel is right on, and I agree...for students who love Ramtha and believe he is real, and shut up about the abuses of JZ toward people because of that, they are not being honest to themselves, nor to Ramtha. "He" has said that a master is honest, noble, impeccable, etc. So, live it. Face your fears and speak the TRUTH of what you know !

This could go here or under the "By their fruits ye shall know them" thread
In response to the fact that students, x-students,staff, x-staff, local merchants and x-local merchants, dont speak up... or if they do they do so (maybe or at all) they do it from a distance...
It's like under it all in our old NERONET we still somehow think that maybe just maybe the RAM or someone (JZ?)will "get us".
Alot like the church isn't it? Remember the crapola about the devil and sin and all that? This is no different.
We long to break free of the belief in good vs. evil, but as long as we believe in one, here comes the other around the corner. That the duality is an illusion, must still be a hard wafer to swallow.
If the (old)Ram was "real" he did not teach us we were a bunch of loosers that had to quiver and quake every time someone didn't "like" us. Who will EVER know what part of the Ramtha thing was real or not real? Not me, that's for sure, and what difference does it make at this point?
Like at home, at church, in school, we got totally mixed messages and we ended up totally mixed up. Makes sense to me.
For years the Ram told us he "sent runners" I remember the first time I read that I knew from my other spiritual "teachings" and mostly the "where ever you go THERE you are", sort of ACIM teaching, that no one (else)sends them. Because thay are already ALWAYS right under our noses!
So to try and tell people that HE was SENDING these things is usurping the power of your own SOURCE.BUT when you get a group of people to believe that YOU are sending them their "runners" NOW you have them in your POWER. (for as long as you can fool them)
This style of "teaching" is an old one, as we all have noticed, but not the TRUTH.

Good points, Dance.
It's all a form of manipulation. If we accept the fearful emotions that we may have, we're going to limit ourselves because of it. I was in an audience of at least 1,000 people a little while back, and "Ramtha" threatened my wellbeing because I refused to raise my hand in compliance with a question that I did not agree with. I mean to say, he was ANGRY, and even scared those around me. I stayed in my spot, and stared at him with no expression. I refused to engage him. In my heart, I was losing respect for who I thought my teacher to be, acting like such an axxhole. Out of control with anger. It was such a blessing, in a strange way, as it helped push me out the door. I went to my RV and cried so hard for hours upon end until I thought I was going to be sick to my stomach. The Egg Cracked that day. It was over, and the rest, until my last attended event, was just going through the motions of detachment on all levels, and observing the ... the blindness of most of the students. I would search/scan the audience as I sat there, for others who did not raise their hands. I was in the front and on the video camera, so perhaps that ****** her/him off even more. I don't know. I don't care anymore, either. I'm truly free. I care enough about myself and have enough self worth to know that I did not deserve that outburst at all. I don't accept it and I never will. That being, whomever it truly was, was like a threatened, angry, egotistical child having just that - a temper tantrum. I learned something very powerful about myself that day - about my own inner strength.
It was then that I started quietly doing "google" searches on "ramtha", "fraud", "rse scam" and all similar things like that. I read for hours and hours and hours, for weeks and months. I had found FACTNet, and I read every post many times. I couldn't sleep at night. I thought about all of the things I had told my children about "Ramtha", that I assumed were true, and how they trusted ME (as young ones who believe their parents), and how I had to now undo all of that. ACK !!! It was like going through the stages of grief. Then I got angry...the betrayal...that so and so...how could JZ sleep at night or look herself in the mirror ? I thought about those wine ceremonies, when "he" was stinking drunk and used language that was worse than an X-rated movie, for up to 9 hours straight, in front of children. That is child abuse. Talking about extremely sexual/private/adult content for hours on end, also in front of children. That, too, is child abuse. It all made me nauseous. Where could I turn to talk to someone ? Few people even knew I went to RSE. Thank the real God that I found many articles, and then FACTNet...but the clincher was an article in Williamette Weekly. I read the looong article. Then, I saw a photograph of this guy they interviewed and quoted as an x-RSE student, David McCarthy. I looked at the picture and I remembered him. Seeing him at the ranch many times. Never talked to him. Just remembered him very clearly. I screamed to my hubby, "I KNOW THIS GUY!" For some reason, that was enough for me to start posting and emailing David. He has proven to be a very sensitive, caring, honest, compassionate human being. He has strength and bravery. He has tolerated verbal attacks and gossip because he has dared to speak out about RSE and demand accountability. But, he has spoken only facts as he has known them. He has asked hard questions and they have yet to be answered. I hope he sees the day, and we all do, that those answers are forthcoming.

I also wish that we would see the day that Audrey, and ex-staffers, would speak up. JZ can't hurt anybody. She's a bully. That's my opinion, and I'm speaking it. I have compassion for her, but I believe she is a child in an adult body. Carolyn Myss describes the "wounded child" syndrome and it makes me think of JZ.

Thank you for speaking up for the Thunder Market. And you're right about all of it, including the weddings and all the other stuff. Ms. Knight didn't want a community of fellow-enlightened-humans making the world a better place. She just wanted to be number uno. Competition took her to a level of base emotions ie. jealousy. Scary, that we wanted so much to please that we would rather find error in ourselves, then in the great teacher and the teacher's "body and mind".

Another is that Judy acts out tyrannical behavior which is well known and generates a lot of fear. I know a loyal ten year employee who was fired and one of the last things Judy screamed at her was, "I'll do everything in my power to make sure that you never collect unemployment." Scary stuff.

For all of those who live in foreign countries who have not the foggiest idea of what this means I found out that in the USA the former employer pays the unemployment benefits not the government as is the case in Australia.