The years from about the mid 80's to early 90's were incredibly destructive on the lives of students because of the tremendous pressure of the "earth changes" teachings. Students entering RSE after these early years cannot fathom the pressure as it was no where near that degree in later years and totally absent for many foreigners after the world tour events began.

Students were encouraged to buy up gold because of the impending collapse of the US dollar...down to a value of 7 cents. I read in a very large article in Spectrum magazine that about 100 couples went bankrupt because of this. According to Ramtha the stock market was going to crash any day. After masses of purchases gold dropped in value and has only gone up again recently.

Ramtha was emphatic that people needed to build undergrounds to survive the changes. The education he gave wasn't enough. People were out there digging with their bare hands.

He emphasized many times that "coming to learn" was the most important thing of all. It was more important than families.

Downunder those who wanted to participate in the teachings had very little option as there was no intent of RSE to come to Australia, or New Zealand at all on a regular basis. It was not certain if they would ever come again. The world was going to fall apart and they might not be able to get there anyway.
Those that elected to remain in the country felt that if they carried out the instructions they would survive but it was unlikely to get education. Over the years prior to the world tour they got very little.

Ramtha told people that the cities were dangerous places and to get out. Some people moved out of the city and remained in their own coutries. In Australia this was a minority. I am not so certainthat everyone who moved out of the city is happy with their choice.

At the Sydney event held with Ramtha prior to the formation of RSE he forecast that a tidal wave would cover the tallest building in Sydney and told people to move behind the Blue Mountains. Lots of the predictions he forecast elsewhere were also given forward.

We were the chosen ones that got the knowledge no one else did. That was in 1988.

On some presentations Ramtha stated not to move to Yelm and on others he just said that "the work" was most important of all.....putting tremendous pressure on people. They also had to get their food supplies for 2 years together and tools that could be used as if there were no electricity. Also seeds, spare clothing and any other essential items. He stated that the Yelm area was the safest in the world so that we would "be preserved."

Students that did not act on these instructions were told they were very foolish and would not survive if they did not act on the given information. This happened many times. On occasions gatherings were held for advanced students imparting the latest update on the catastrophic forecasts. buy up land in the Antarctic they were told. Real Estate will be a steal because the ice caps will melt.

Many people were afraid of course. Those more affluent and residents of the USA felt secure and smug after carrying out the tasks. They, in general, had a far better capacity to do so.
Foreigners obviously had to make a choice of where to be to carry out such instructions. Most chose to go to the USA. Some left families behind. I know of some children that were very distraught that they lost their mother. Many of these people were illegal immigrants. Some married USA students for the sole purpose of remaining in the USA lawfully. Others after nearly 20 years are still living there unlawfully and living the life of an unlawful resident......stressful to put it mildly. Some have not had driver's licenses and have always been nervous about being picked up by the police. Others are forever nervous about certain people finding out their illegal status. Others had preferred occupations in their countries and cannot work lawfully in those occupations sometimes doing very menial, tedious work instead. Some of more affluence or preferred occupations actually got legal permits to work in the USA.
Students were harrassed at the immigration at airports and borders. This was common knowledge amonst foreigners. The school was most certainly not a respectable activity to participate in.
The people who resided unlawfully near the school were terrified of leaving the USA to see their children or families "in case they did not get back in." The education was all important. Ramtha on many occasions made references implying that at some point it would not be safe to travel. The only problem was that no one knew exactly when that was. It resulted in some people being afraid to even travel out of the Yelm vicinity. A 30 hour travelling period to Australia was unthinkable for many. Some reasoned it was only FEAR.That was usually addressed at the next event when it was stated that that type of thinking was unintelligent as there was a need to be wise. It was a great conflict in many people. They all wanted the answers and took comfort in the answers given by their peers who also wanted the comfort and security of someone who agreed with them.
Sales of homes and assets converted into US dollars was valued at far less the the Australian or New Zealand currency. New Zealand currency was little over half of the USD.
Ther were Americans affected also. I encountered the relative of a student who knew JZ and Jeff Knight personally. He had moved back with his mother in the eastern USA. He started school in those early years. He ended up eating a can of vegetables per day and living in the forests around Yelm. He got enough money to make it to his event and then went back to eating one can of vegetables per day. It got to the point he could not cope any longer.

Many of the foreigners lived in miserable conditions. leaky trailers in winter, begging for food at the Master's Center. Living in old barns. No toilet faclities or running water. A student who left her family in Australia in those early years informed a relative (who joined school later but only went to required's and did not leave the country) That she had "been through hell." This was more than a decade after commencement of the teachings. In Australia the person had their own home, husband and two children.
In the USA the person was renting. She had also amde very poor choices for a property settlement as a result of the influence of the teachings. She was for many years ending up having conflict with the landholder and ended up having to leave taking the trailer with her. She is one of the most sincere students and in the blue college. Fabulous Wealth did not come for her as it has not for others that made those type of decisions based upon the cataclysmic teachings.

It was also evident that the RSE administraion and probably most USA residents had no idea at all of what it takes to attend events in the USA. To this day I still do not think they do as they have not experienced it. It is quite thing to enter a country as a teacher with all expenses paid and quite another to immigrate unlawfully with no known way of financing a living.

Ramtha in those days always expressed a sense of urgency. It was not a delivery in the modality that having an underground might be a sensible thing to do if you live in a bushfire area.

Bill Cooper's information was also circulating. Ramth's "runner" telling us of a hostile invasion on the planet of reptilians located in underground bases in the USA that were abducting children and eating them. They were also puportedly doing horrifying genetics experiments.

Someone who has joined the school later has no comprehension of the impact of those early years and the destruction it caused. Do you think those people who left their children had peaceful nights in Yelm knowing they were in a safe place?

I saw one marriage break up in Australia and the mother who was a student remained in Australia. The 8 year old daughter was terrified that her daddy would not live through "the earth changes." I know of teenagers in their important high school years lose a parent when they need a secure environment to complete their studies for entry into tertiary education. I know of others who took their children with them to the USA and never sent them to school as they wer not legal residents. I know of others who got into dreadful relationships that they would never have got into under less stressful living conditions.

Of course they are Ramtha's teachings and the incarnating entities that take the profit do not hold themselves accountable for any of the destruction. They are however happy to take your cash. What a complete disgrace to the term enlightenment.

when you go into the light you will rexpierience all your past emotions and the emotions you caused in others.good i wish this ramtha teaching.comes true for jz.

A meesage to current students....

The Destructive Years as so true..

I was in there during the EARTH CHANGES lectures... and I know of many people who CHANGED their business and famil life becuase of Earth Changes Seminars...
Many sold their homes and business thinking they were doomed and may as well go all they can do to save their family.

In addition to the many who sold businesses and moved to Yelm... there were many who stayed in their home town and made major changes.

Many families split up and children were left wanting their mom's or dad's.

In addition, do you know that in the beginning years.. it was over $1,000.00 to attend a week end event. At least the price seems to be less now.

Many people have contributed thousands of dollars to RSE.. for ONE MORE SEMINAR... One More Event.

I think what most who come here are trying to say is WATCH YOUR STEP... look deeply before you jump into the hot coals.

As you read the many stories here... please keep an open mind.. and know. .... that day will most likely come for you when you're money runs out... and you are living on the street at the hands of friends... perhaps that will be the day like many of us have had.. that you truly WAKE UP... and Question and SEE CLEARLY...

It is mostly a money scam.. and similar information can be found already written in many books these days... or on the internert.

It not, then what is being taught is a fairy tail that can never happen.... for I can DREAM of flying like a bird... but the heavy mass of this dense body simply does not want to take flight.

Do not hate us or label us... you do not know us...
Remember, We TOO were told we were VERY SPECIAL... just like you... smile.

We have been through a mind field and are on the other side... you perhaps are just starting your walk and do not know where the exposives are...

Our post are just a gently nudge to plase.. wake up and open your eyes... and see clearly...

We speak up for we have no fear... and nothing no longer to protect... One day.. you too will join us.

Welcome Pamely and thankyou for having the courage to speak up. I did not know that it cost $1,000 for a weekend event. Many people have no idea of what happened in those early years.
Any stories you have are welcome. I have found in searching the internet that there is very little information anywhere about the truth of RSE and its history. There used to be quoite a bit of information years ago on the Arabian horse scam. Now there is little.

Well, as I stated... in the beginning days the HOOK Was YOU ARE SO SPECIAL.... Yada Yada Yada..

I was one who fley around the USA to as many events as possible... the early days of the Ram was quite a different character. More Love... and Unlimited Insiration.... often spoke about LOVE and at you're hour of death how YOU will LOOK INTO THE EYES of everyone that you have harmed and FEEL how you have harmed ALL THINGS of God.... and that you are that which you harm.

Now that is interesting... Where is Ramtha and JZ in this one now... oh yea.. she is beyond karma... no karma.

So I supose the children who are fatherless and motherless today will be FELT by JZ and all of us... as we are apart of it all.

Many husbnad's and wives left behind... people who were smart... well educated... and creators who had going successful businesses... scraped EVERYTHING in the name of God... I know... I was one..

My only saving grace is, I am a CREATOR... and seems I always pick myself up and create again... not all are so successful.

Someone sent me a personal email around Christmas, they lived in UK and was considering leaving a marriage to move to Yelm... the wife did not want to close the business and up-root the family.

I revealed everything I know... in the end each person must be self-responsible for their life choices.

I always wondered if there is SOOOOOO Much LOVE in the Universe why do beings like RAMTHA if he is real... curse so many people.... i have heard the Ram refer to people in our world as Mules.

Did you ever hear.... Leave Your DEAD Muels Behind?

Referring to your family... friends... children ect.

"in the end each person must be self-responsible for their life choices."

that includes choices we each made with regards
to our involvement with ramtha and rse. i hear
a lot of sour grapes here about that experience.
well, i am sorry about that, but there were choices
made by every person who came to rse that led to
these experiences. they could have made other
choices and had different experiences. i was
involved for a decade and have nothing remarkable
to complain about. i however did not approach
rse cultically. i approached it experimentally
and as an individual. i kept to myself for the
most part, and i did not bother with cult-brained
types, of which there were plenty. others though
threw themselves into the yelm scene, without
discrimination. and what a mess they incurred.

i have a certain bias i admit. i did the cult thing
before i came to ramtha. and i also have had a
life-long involvement with martial arts. to me
the ranch was a kind of battlefield. anyone in
martial arts knows that only with adversity is
there any development. so, i brought a martial
focus to rse and did not get tangled in all the
cr*p that so many others apparently did.

and i got something out of the entire experience
because of my attitude and my choices. this doesn't
condone jz's abuse. but it does mean that i did not
allow myself to become a victim of it.

yes the drugkonsumer schuld be punished not the dealer.thanks for this webside to show the souer graps.there are enough peachy cream sids.how will you make a good desission if you dont know both sides of the coin.i long thought stupid but harmles and tryed to let it go.only to work on years of deprograming from the brainwash there.allso there were people deing from overdosed anabolilic water,heavy seawater,alcohol abuse and abuse of prozzac.yes there is a way of not have souer grapes.lots of money than it dosent hurt if you only invest10%.some people set everything on one card. i know now it was stupid,the most intresting thing here is to hear old storys because the enlightment seemed allways just around the corner.so lucky if you can buy your enlightment.

NYK - We have some things in common - Yes, we all make choices; I too was a 'loner' at the Ranch -- it's quite remarkable to be amidst a thousand jabbering people and be in my own silent world; I learned a great deal from my experience - life lessons.
None of that is the point here, as far as I'm concerned. Needless to say, I can't speak for anyone else.
I awakened from the Ramtha experience over 13 years ago. As you - that was that, and onward I went. For a long time I could hear the cries of the Souls still hooked into the RSE dimension. They were making their choices and there was nothing I could do - certainly there is no changing of a mind as convinced as a Ramster's, or any fanatic, of football or spirituality or whatever. Since the wine ceremonies, and because I live in the Yelm area, I've seen people I knew when they were sparkly eyed lightfilled Beings now old before their time, addicted to alcohol, who've lost their property, and are the walking dead. I cry when I see them. But it's their choice, right? Even if they were sincerely convinced that the manipulative mind controlling scam to which they were innocently subjected was truth, they have a choice.
Then along came David - and the Life After RSE Gathering. David made a choice -- that the pain he saw in too many people as a result of their involvement was more than he could bear any longer - it was too much. With an awakened heart he recognized that reaching out a hand to save a drowning child is irrelevant to how come the child is drowning. Certainly from the perspective of quantum physics, for ex. there is no child and nothing in which to drown; certainly, from the perspective of another dimension or parallel universe everything here is an illusion; blah blah blah. But here we are. It is our choice to allow our hearts to be opened, or not.
In my recently begun journey with David/LARSE, including speaking with some of Yelm's Christian pastors, I have come upon a hard fact - we all shield ourselves from the pain of those around us --- we all have valid rationalizations for our ignoring-ness. It became clear to me that only a "Christed"/truly "Enlightened" Being could incorporate/open to all of the pain in our world; and it became clear that there is put before us those who call forth our compassion -- if we choose to open our hearts.
For over 13 years I was fine with "it's their choice". Then I was overwhelmed with facts - of unnecessary deaths, of suicides, of the utter obscenities and by any sane person's definition, sick behavior of these so called enlightened christed expanded consciousness beings called JZ and Ramtha. I find myself in a place where I cannot not reach out to everyone who has had the RSE/Ramtha experience. Part of that reaching is to share our experiences, our perspectives, our knowledge. We too have a choice.

good god grace, you still live in the yelm area?!
i just cannot understand that. i couldnt stand yelm
when i first saw it. i refused to live there. and
i have pretty much avoided it like the plague ever
since i left the school. so, i do not have your
perspective. thank you for your insights.

I get the sense you are demeaning those that
did not "get it".. especially “those dupes” that still live in Yelm..
NYK..you were in RSE for 10 years and talk about it like water off a ducks back..
No..the RSE waters are a poison that permeates deep into the Soul..
Where evil plays dice with the lives of humankind just for entertainment.
I am sure you understand the issues far extend beyond the boarders of RSE and Yelm?

Lets see if we can lift “Ramtha’s” rock of deception and see what scurries out?

In that… your strength will be much appreciated..

David

hi david-

i know. but i have always had very strange feelings
in the yelm environment. an oppressive feeling. a
desolation. it is concentrated there. i think it
was the appearance and lack of feng shui more than
anything consciously specific that repelled me
initially from that area. and the feelings that
i had - and which magnified enormously in 1998 -
i would reflexively attribute to myself in some way...
oh i must be in a weird mood or something. i dipped
in and out of yelm and rarely lingered there.

but as i have been reading some of the stories here,
i am gaining an increased understanding of the
nature of the yelm reality; its magnitude, and its
insidious tenacity.

i would suggest an integral approach. this would
be an anthology/cataloging of personal testimonials,
as well as research. a sober and focused presentation.
avoid heresay as much as possible. conscise stories
signed by individuals that are factually-oriented,
avoiding fallacious logic [browse thru this site:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ to get
an idea of what to avoid to strengthen your
presentation].

build a decent catalog of material and then
set up a web page that presents it cleanly and
clearly. you want to deliver this with a sharp
and unwavering sword. cc would likely be of
tremendous assistance with exactly that.

NYK - see Cycle of Abuse and Free for Free.

Interesting that your response to my previous post was about my living in the Yelm area. Apparently you are a city person. And apparently you never noticed all the exquisite beauty here. Perhaps you're not as free of all effects of RSE as you think --- People who can't handle Yelm usually aren't. As David indicated, there are insidious aspects to the experience we had, poisonous ones, and it takes time to cleanse all of them. There is pain in your neighborhood - become aware; acknowledge it, reach out with love.
One of the major differences from me and many Ramsters here is that I have always had a life other than RSE; and, I'd known I was to move to WA state in this general area before JZ even read the books out of which Ramtha was born.

nyk,

your suggestions are good ones. they have already been considered and there are several pages on this website:
guest speakers
and
this test is over
...these two pages are for ex-students, or family members who were affected by living with a student, to write their stories. some can do so as a narrative, and others will write as guest speakers, perhaps in interview style. we'll see what unfolds with that. whatever THEY prefer.

i think for the first time since you've started posting, it seems that you are understanding that while you didn't go away from rse with any concerns/complaints, that doesn't mean that there weren't so many things "wrong". now, people are empowered to speak about their experiences, in a forum that is not going to delete their post as others have when they are questioned. it is also a place that can offer support, information, and find others who have experienced rse themselves. there are other good msg boards that deal with "groups", but i am unaware of one that deals with a specific focus on the experiences uniquely related to rse.

if it helps one person, it was worth the effort. but the feedback already is, in less than a week, from behind the scenes, this site is a cause for celebration for quite a few people. it's only 8 days old. if that doesn't exemplify the NEED being real, i don't know what does.

hopefully, more and more of these "behind the scenes" people will garner the courage to speak out, too.

graced-

no, the yelm prarie just doesn't work for me. i like
to live near the sea and the mountains and with a
a lot less people. i left olympia almost 8 years ago.
i am up on the oly peninsula now. and if the
greenhousing sustains i may move on along up to
bc. who knows. if it werent for the fact of my
deep and prolonged relationship with carroll,
i would likely not be posting here or thinking much
about any of this. ramtha wasnt the only phenomena
i marched into, but it was the last.

yes, the waters have certainly been poisoned haven't
they? to the extent that most of the post-ramsters
all now believe that they do not create one iota
of their reality, that their lives are completely
at the whim of the universe. because of rse they
have ended up throwing the baby out with the
bathwater. jz/ramtha did not originate the axiom
that you create reality. jane popularized it first
(and also did not live it) but it is something that
is really prehistoric.

in addition, to what i wrote above, i think a
definitive obituary memorial be created too. i know
it is going to be rather a large one.

whatcha-

the test is over section says 'under construction'!
likewise the guest speakers section!

There is an old African saying..
If You Are Not Free..
I am Not Free.
What becomes of EMF is in our hands…
Pandora’s box is open.. and cannot be closed,
Watcha is right when she said..
“hopefully, more and more of these "behind the scenes" people will garner the courage to speak out, too.”
Each one of us holds a piece of information that will piece together the truth about “Ramtha”/ JZK Inc. but it will take courage and honesty.. especially from those former RSE staff members that I have spoken to who have remained silent all these years?
Nyk..
Point to a place on this earth that is not sacred?
If we do not make a stand now..
not even Antarctica will be a safe haven from the JZ Knights of this world,


David

if you are also willing to include xtianity,
and our government, and our education system
(which began the molding which has so-handicapped
us), then i can conjoin with you. i will not
trade one cult for another, even a nice one.

i am interested in self-reliant people who
desire to walk in harmony on the earth. none of
our religions/cults or our social systems are doing
this.

patience, nyk !!!!

nyk,

there are forums that address what has gone awry in the religions, governments, or educational systems of the world that you are referring to.
but nowhere has this forum stated that it was taking on the world. nowhere does it state that folks must come to this website and join the cult of ex-ramsters. so if that's what this is to you, as you've said, you are free to leave.
the folks posting on here don't even all know one another. they don't have to.
it's just what it says it is - a support, information and networking community for ex-ramsters.
folks may never come to this website, or they may pass on through and glean from it what suits them, or they may stay for a long time. doesn't matter. the thing that matters is that there is the OPTION of a forum where they are empowered to speak about THEIR experiences there, particularly with regard to having doubts and concerns about them.
you certainly can if you wish, but i'd suggest you don't put read any more into it than just that.
before we can have a planet that we can all walk in harmony on, we all have to find a common ground. living to the standards of other people, or other groups, isn't going to get the job done. i don't see how it can happen until we can live with respectful love toward each other. even in being self-reliant, if we respected one another's spaces, we could have community living styles where there were huge gardens that all local residents tended, and shared the produce from, etc. this sure isn't new. there ARE such communities - intentional communities they are called. books are written about them.

on the topic of creating our reality...if...all of the people on the planet who understood and accepted that they create their reality, all focused on the same thing - world peace and abundance - then why don't we already have that ????? i'm quite serious. i know plenty of people who have prayed, meditated, chanted, focused, whatever you want to call that, for world peace. we still have war . death. hate. a master teacher who said that the people who died in the tsunami deserved their deaths.

where is the HOPE in that?

whatcha-

i refuse to surrender. i refuse to be disenchanted,
poisoned.

it's too bad you can't understand that about me. it
is not complex.

NYK,
We are way off track from Christel's original thread..
"The Destructive Early Years of RSE"..
Apologies all round,

Its time to move on....

nyk,

good for you. you should be doing what you view is what works for you. nobody is trying to sway you anywhwere other than where you want to be. that includes your choice to be reading/posting on this message board.

i do agree, however, that your posts have deviated far from the intended topic of the author of this thread. thank you, david.

we do need to either stay on topic, or start a new thread, please.

"i know. but i have always had very strange feelings
in the yelm environment. an oppressive feeling. a
desolation. it is concentrated there. i think it
was the appearance and lack of feng shui more than
anything consciously specific that repelled me
initially from that area. and the feelings that
i had "

Re Nyks statement here::
I too always felt this gloomy feeling around downtown Yelm. The country side is beautiful, but you have to like this land in order to like it here. So what I did was, I focussed on learning everything about what ELSE the body could do besides be dependant on the ambience of the physical environment. I practiced OOB travel, heavy "focussing" sessions in my trailor during winter...and if I needed social fun I went somewhere else, [when I was current, the dancing and stuff there did just fine.]
Does anyone remember JZ telling an audience that there was a Zeta Base that ran right under downtown Yelm? And that time when the Chiropractor in the Bald Hills got visited by a [non RSE] man, at 1 AM who was onslaughted by a bunch of UFOs while cutting wood nearby..Not friendly ones either...well, I had "seen" those same ships and Energies around that time, and had a few other "unpleasent" experiences in this prairie...that just allowed me to See what humanity is dealing with. Likewise, I have felt the exquisite beauty of this area...but I admit Im partial to the high-dry areas, and to towns that are more FUN to walk around in. This place is so Cold and full of cars and roads!
But I also want to say here. I have had more than one friend in RSE who died while being really into following RAM...in fact, seemed to have all thier Joy while at events only...like the "life outside" school was just too bleak and scary. I cant decipher them or thier path, but Im glad I didnt get that way, and also, when I finally left the Yelm area, this chronic lower back pain I had just dissapeard overnight...I felt a great relief to leave the area...but only because this wasnt my "right Place" anyway.
I was scared to leave as I also was here when doomsday was about to occur and I didnt have a U.G....I finally decided I wanted to be in the location of my Hearts desire, even if it meant I would Die there in the earth changes...which I didnt.
But I also remember Ram saying to us something like...would you want to be warned a few DAYS before disaster, or a few YEARS, sos to have time to prepare. Those of us who Hurried to prepare, may not have had the ability to get "out of time" and feel out thier own destinys timeline probability. So we took the Rams words literal.
Also I want to say, If I could yet afford to build a U.G. I would consider making it a dwelling I could use in some fashion during good times too...or just a "cave" to retreat to..etc.....as I know of some U.G. that have caved in and never were made but for escapism.