i respect this website opinion, but help me understand where the hate is coming from...
Is Ramtha that you don't like?
Or is the ideia that you are god that you dont like?
Or is the school customer service you don't like?
Or is that you are frustuated your life is not going the way you want and there is need to blame someone?
Or all the above?

If you don't like the school just don't go anymore. Just like any other business that provides service.
sorry..dont mean to attack i just want to understand, i am not a student, i thinking to attend soon...so please help me out..thank you!

bobby,

let me respond to your points. i will also preface my reply by specifying that i speak only for myself, with my own opinion. others of course, are free to respond, themselves, to your post.

1) it is YOU that cites hate. please do not put those words in my mouth.

2) again - it isn't about "like" or "dislike". it's about having direct experiences and disagreeing with the methodology used.

3) the idea that anyone is a GOD ? can you prove this before asking for a viewpoint on it ?

4) the school's customer service ? i can give mixed reviews. since i have left the "school", i think it's obvious that my satisfaction is disapproval.

5) i do not blame anyone for my life. i didn't say it's a frustrating life. it's not. but that does not justify the goings on at the "school".

6) since i do not harbor hate toward the school, it follows that finding, or not finding my card on the field, is irrelevant.

i have had delightful things come into my life that i have never, ever made a card on, or walked the field for. there is no proof that making and finding a card on the field is the causative factor in any subsequent manifestatition in one's life. that is, in my opinion, pseudoscience.

if i don't like the school, "just don't go anymore", you say. with all due respect, that is YOUR choice, and not necessarily the choice of myself or others.

when a person experiences a product or service that they then cannot find support for, when dissatisfied, they do have the right to walk away quietly and perhaps be a victim in the process. or walk away and communicate to see if others share the same/similar experiences and viewpoints. that's another choice.

because one does not walk away quietly and "move on" quietly, does not equate "hate". it means the choice has been made to research various avenues, that will lead to being fully educated about the past, the experiences, and then learning from that. perhaps it's best to do such research BEFORE spending years in a school such as what i paid to attend.

being dissatisfied with the product/service of the school cannot be reduced to something as simple as something you pick up at a store and don't like. this school deals with mind, body and spirit. far more deep than the average daily experiences.


as for your choice to attend or not - it is just that - your choice to make. good luck trying to sort it all out.

There's not hate here. There's people who have experienced the RSE - some for over a decade. We speak based on our experience.
The issue isn't whether or not we found our card - we did; we did all the "disciplines". The issue isn't even about what little "truth" is taught at the RSE. The issue is the environment and manner in which the so called "teaching" takes place. The issue, to me, so what if you can find your cared, hit a bullseye blind folded, survive 12 hours in a confined space - so what? It depends on what your deepest truest Ideal/Intention is. If psychic powers are what you want, there's lots of free ways to do that. Any true spiritual path teaches that psychic powers are secondary, and are a result of union with the Divine. If Love is your Ideal/Intention, then you won't find it at the RSE - with the exception of some personal contact you may make with other individuals.
If you are a serious questioner of whether or not to go to the RSE, follow the factnet link and read of others experiences. If you're a Ramster trying to raise hell - this site is not for you. Go in peace. If the RSE is your desire, go for it. You're traveling on a road on which "danger ahead" signs are being lovingly placed by others who have gone before you. If you attend the RSE, do your best to retain an objective perspective.
Blessings on your journey. There is not hate here. There is love, and concern.

to whatchamacallit..thank you for replying. Sorry I came across like that, I know there is no hate here, and I agree 100 percent what you wrote.

Here is my question, maybe it's more direct to David Mcarthy, or whoever got this website running.. I have read the White book by Ramtha, seems that the main teaching I got was to believe yourself, and don't worship anyone but yourself. How can that be agaisnt anyones personal belief? it's only telling you to seek truth in yourself. That's all. Here we live in world there are people blowing up each other in iraq, pedophiles everywhere, killers, people that has no respect to life, why not use all the energy and time that was used for this website to create peaceful website against those who has no respect to human life?? it's like what's the goal here? shutdown RSE? then David will be happy? Thanks again for replying whatchamacallit and sorry again how i came accross in the first post

bobby,

this website is certainly not about shutting down rse and being happy about it.
it is about creating a forum where people can communicate, no matter where they live in the country, or in the world, who WANT or NEED support.

you said you haven't gone to an event yet. but for those of us who have - some for MANY years, there is a need for support with others who will talk. who want to talk.

it is common for a person to leave a "group" such as rse, and become isolated and shut off by those who remain in. it is just human to question oneself about the experiences one has had - the things that are felt about what was seen/heard/experienced. we all ask ourselves, "is it me?" no, it's not JUST us.

there has not been, to my knowledge, any support forum where students who specifically have left rse, could communicate and network together to share their thoughts. so THAT is the "peaceful website" that you may be referring to. it is first and foremost about a community of people who have left the school, and who, as has been stated on this website, have doubts about any or all aspects of their journey through rse.

if, in that process, we also happen to come to the realization that certain things that happened to various former students (or those still there who remain for their own reasons), are things that are not complimentary, are we to remain silent ? if so, for what purpose ?

part of leaving any group, is to evaluate what was worthwhile and what wasn't - and why.

in my opinion, part of any good business, is monitoring not just the strokes and accolades one receives as the CEO, or president, or founder (whatever applies). it is also about managing conflict. in managing conflict, one has to be open to its existence. this poses a problem.

if a person believes that they create their own reality, then they may choose to say that they do not have conflict in their life. that's delusional, in my opinion. i do not intend that as a slam to anyone. saying something is so, does not make it so. if that were the case, all students in the school would likely be wealthy, healthy, and wise beyond human understanding. most of the students focused on god realization as they are told they can achieve that - yet - none have. they just spend sincere time attempting to reach the goal.

i never met a student that was not sincere.

bobby, if you see that this website is not creating peace, support, and meeting an unmet need, i say you are mistaken. please reconsider your viewpoint, because i assure you, the networking that has been ongoing and growing for some time now, has helped many people.

it doesn't matter who got this website running...what matters is the results it achieves in reaching its goal - to offer support and help those who have doubts about any aspect of rse. that is a very "good" thing ! that is respect for HUMAN life, also. not just letting the door hit them on the way out, or marginalizing people by trying to sidestep any issues and calling them victims. we are not victims. if we were, we'd just fade away into the woodwork. we clearly have not done that.

What is about the teachings that you don't agree?

Bobby, The teachings sound beautiful. That is why we all went in the first place. If you take a very good look at the lives of large numbers of students that live in the Yelm vicinity near the school you will find a large amount of evidence that what is presented does not work because a large number of students are living in poverty/financial stress and have been doing so for a very long time. Many of these have been attending the teachings regularly for over a decade. For some it is closer to two decades. This is not everyone as some have retained a good occupation and good incomes.It is the lot of very large numbers though. Don't take anyone's word for it. Investigate yourself.

Take a look at their daily lives not what they speak because they are very good at reiterating what is taught as a philosophy on the stage. Isolated, non lasting accomplishments do not enhance the humdrum of a daily life of servitude.

Writing facts based on experience, without lying about any of it, is LOVING as it is HONEST.

Most long term students would have found their cards. I did my fieldwork when I was not at RSE in a heated indoor swimming pool. I had no other facilties available. I swam breaststoke blindfolded and became very good at finding my card. I put cards around the perimeter and if I was not focussed I found a lot of green carpet that surrounded the pool. I did not cheat. It would have been fruitless. I know plenty of others who have found cards and in the long term it has done nothing for their daily lives.

Go investigate and find out yourself.

I understand. But there is no secret to the teachings, it's all affirmations and to act on it, instead of trying it. All about believing in yourself. Anthony Robbins teaches the samething and other motivation speakers. There is no way I am going to stop creating my reality because majority of the students have not done so. Are you giving hope on yourself? you should ask that. Because what you are saying that we don't create reality, that we should just live whatever happens happens. No way! Take away Ramtha, the school, but there is no way you going to tell me my thoughts don't create reality. What's the arternative then? who is creating my reality?

HEre is the 4 cornerstones of the school
You are god..<~~ if you dont believe that fine, I will
Conscious and energy creates reality <~ like i said, who is creating then?
Make known the unknown <~ cant debate with that
Conquer yourself <~~ do you know who you are? no, and i dont. So we are to wake up, or whatever you can call it

Tell me how you can go against that

maybe is just that you are focusing on getting the card and not being what is on the card. The prize is not to get the card, but to be what is on the card.

You know so much Bobby. You know the truth already. I would not want to tell you that your thoughts do not create your reality.

Bobby,

There are people in the school who have done more than "trying" to manifest their realities. They focused with all due sincerity. Some things manifested; some did not. Were they the wrong type of "focused" one time and not another ? At what point does one say that they are not specific with a frequency ? After focusing on the same exact thing for 20 or more years and it has not manifested ? At what point is it reasonable to at least question the veracity of the teaching?
Part of the story is that yes, there are thousands of people who are teaching similar "teachings", and have been for hundreds and hundreds of years. The whole concept of God Within is not at all new, and it's not at all exclusive to RSE.
But to say that with no conditions at all, we create everything in our reality, 100% of the time, I believe is misleading. The teachings have even changed to say that there are conditions. This was not stated initially. I recall learning we create EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that we focus upon. No conditions. Then, it changed to we had to be a matching frequency to what we focused on, and if were weren't, we weren't going to get it. Also, talks of our subconscious mind protecting us from some things that we thought we wanted, but if we saw the bigger picture, we'd realize we would not choose it at all.

So, I disagree with you, if you believe that manifestation is only about belief in yourself, acting on it instead of trying it, and it only being a matter of espousing affirmations. That's okay. I don't need to agree with you, and unlike some students, I don't have any need whatsoever to speak to you defensively, disrespectfully, rudely or any such thing. I'm not threatened by where we may disagree.


You are God
Yes, but the INTERPRETATION of what that means, is more deep than a cursory look at the words alone.

Consciousness and energy alone create reality? There are physicists who would call that statement unproven pseudoscience.

As for making known the unknown - I do that every day. It's a new day. There are all sorts of unknowns that become known as I journey through my life. AGain, that phrase is like a phrase in the Bible...it can be interpreted many ways by many people.

Conquer yourself
You may believe you do not know who you are. You can even believe that I do not know who I am. But, you do not decide for me, what I believe about myself. I've "conquered" a number of things about myself. I like myself. I'm a virtuous person; a noble person. A highly intuitive person. Sometimes even a crabby person ! I'm a human living my life the way it suits me. I have had very profound "mystical" experiences in my life, since I was very young. That was true before I joined RSE, while I was current in RSE (a LONG time), and continues to be true very much so, after I have left RSE. I do not believe that my innate intuitive abilities (in whatever ways they have manifested themselves) are a result of my tenure at RSE.


But, I don't believe that these four cornerstones of the school are all that is important to the overall picture of what RSE represents.

bobby,

what does it say to you that in 25 years (give or take) not one person in that school has been able to consistently get their cards, and/or manifest them all ? not one person, bobby.

these people are sincere.

reality is not formed 100% BY our thoughts. good thing, too. what would happen every time one of us got angry at another person ? humans don't even have loving control over their thoughts, so thank goodness for TIME, if it were true that we affected everything we thought about.

bobby, if you believe and know that you create all of your reality, all of the time, then why do you live on a world that has murder, rape, abuse, neglect, rage, anger, jealousy, resentment, death, disease, hatred...you get my drift...

i have focused hearts around the planet earth so many times and with such focus and sincerity, why hasn't it happened in almost 20 years of due focused intent!?

it doesn't make sense to me, to believe that we create our reality by what we think, 100% of the time. i think it's a partial truth and is misleading.

the hate is coming from beeing lied to.beeing coned and then there r people like you who ask whats wrong with the people who dont take it anymore.the teachings sound good?does take prosacc it makes my work easier sounds good too?if so you will like the brainwash going on there.

my understanding is that a significant number of students were not only taking prozac, but they were getting blasted during wine ceremonies. i don't believe it's even safe to mix the two substances!
the level of fanaticism and lack of critical thinking leaves one's jaw on the ground in surprise. what does it say about a person, that they would allow themselves to be manipulated like that ?! i remember seeing a mother pouring wine into her teenager's mouth. he was handicapped and i questioned how safe it was for him. i just got a blank stare.

no one creates objective reality 100 percent of
the time. it is my experience that at best objective
reality can be nudged...a little bit...sometimes.
usually when i am not trying. well, actually always
when i am not trying.

there sure are some sour tales emerging from the
yelm scene! i have also read about scenes (other than
yelm) and they too seem pretty bad. i think it is
this way everywhere. i think that most people are
pretty dumb and irresponsible - that goes for the
ones going in as well as the ones running these
things.

now i was in the yelm scene for a decade, and i do
not have anything nasty to report. not a thing.
my partner was also there for a decade (i didn't know
her then); likewise for her. but obviously it is
an entirely different story for others. big trouble.
so, it appears that this place is a melting pot
of diverse experiences.

however, i would like to see jz just shut the
whole thing down. completely.

well she's going to be 61 very soon, i believe. i'd say she's financially able to enjoy an early retirement if she chooses to. she can send the old goat (ramtha) back to andromeda from whence he came, and get on with it. but will she ? my opinion/vote would be that she will keep this thing going for as long as she is able to. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

HI Everyone,
Glad to find this site, when I have a spare moment to participate!

I went to RSE from 90 to 93. I learned alot, had a great time, but when I started to feel like "leaving" the school proper, I am SO Glad I paid attention to my God and I dropped out--then returned, then left again...to go live my Life as My heart desired...My own concept of who "Ram" is, goes with me everywhere, as do all the "invisible" influences that may be sharing our 3-D with us.[Must I Prove it??] I had lots of creepy feelings about staying in the school, which was why I left, but there still was nothing like the rush I got finding cards, or seeing how C&E and focussing SEEMED to Speed up CERTAIN manifestations. I test the things I learned to do all the time, and when I left the area for 6 years, then returned[ just to live in this area, not return to RSE], I was Soo glad to Feel like I had not Missed a thing, and I could really see the hypocracy and insecurities of many of the devoted students, and how they were so dependant on quipping what Ram said.. Im like, " Ok , but what about what YOU think/Feel"? .. So I see how certain people may be Cultified...but as for me, I came here to a SCHOOL, to LEARN what was being taught, and when I got it, I moved on. If I have any blame towards RSE, it was those moments I was silently screaming to Ramtha "Tell the People....XYZ!!!!!" You know, like, he didnt cover everything, ...but the day after I "told" him that, he tells the audience "Its not my Job..." meaning, to help us through ALL the aspects of psychological growth we may have to do, etc. So I began to see that he/she is here offering what RSE has to offer, and its always up to each person to take control of thier life and be careful. If you find out you were a fool to fall too much in love with something that Let You Down..well then, be careful next time!!!
I know David McCarthy, and many others here, and indeed, whatever gets you to be sure of who you are, go for it. IM glad to have this forum however..and also KRSE is Great to listen to because when ever I hear the human teachers talking [ Greg, and them], I KNOW ...IM OK!!!!!!!!!
IM "in the Consciousness" and moving along just fine. I even smoke pot now and then and guess what, magic happens when IM high...go figure....
I DO miss the dancing and the terrific energy the group creates, and I think that of all the GROUPS happening on this planet, the RSE is MORE GOOD THAN BAD!!!!! I wish David and the other complainers would lend thier energy to the REAL bad guys who I think are doing so much more damage to the worlds people..
Theres my rant, thanks for listening.
PS, My favorite Channelings are The Right Use of Will Books...check em out!

It is amazing when you simply attempt to have a heart to heart .... honest conversation about these types of organizations... the word HATE or other words to point fingers and name call comes out.

The evel men do, can only continue... when well educated people see and know what is happening.. and make the consdious choice to look the other way.

The chrown chakra has to do with TRUTH... no longer smoothing over things just to fit in and be loved by everyone.. but opening your mind to SPEAK UP... and be heard.

Keeping the secrets of what happens behind closed doors... gives permission for it all to continue.

The people on these boards are not bad people... but listen... after 25 years... someone... at least one person should begin to be the START of SELF MASTERY of the Teaching at RSE.

Don't gage it by finding an index card in the field.. gage it by HOME MANY PEOPLE ... have been CHANGED... and INSPIRED ... and HEADLED from a destructive attitude... by that person.

Most of the Great Works at RSE are SELFISH... and of this world.... and will fall away the moment you acquire your light body consciously.

Inspiration is from God. Playing games with index cards is of man.

By the way.

How SELFISH was Jesus when he walked on this land. He did not attin just to have more money or a better home... he Inspired ALL to be GREATER... look deeper at self...

To Share with one another....

The White Book of Ramtha's is much different tone than the more recent RSE teachings. Seems tome... the later teaching are more HUMAN ... and SELFISH.

Have you noticed that the New Age Movement is almost dead.

Yet... the Christian Churches are becoming larger and larger...

The Foundation of Selfishness leaves you alone at night... no family... no friends... never to reach out and touch others... and after all.. why did you come here... but to experience, touch, express... and know one another..

"The chrown chakra has to do with TRUTH... no longer smoothing over things just to fit in and be loved by everyone.. but opening your mind to SPEAK UP... and be heard.

Keeping the secrets of what happens behind closed doors... gives permission for it all to continue."


Well stated Pamely.

pamely,
i'm going to start a new thread to carry on with your comments.
whatcha