Laurie, Bruce was rated at #96, as per usual Mr. Lee isn't rated.
2 over=rated come to my mind
Slash, The Edge

Peace,
DLM

Heck some of the great ones aren't even on the list.
It's only a list, but Rolling Stone Magazine has usually sucked anyway.
They also have a top 500 abum list.
here's the link:



http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-20111123

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Ah, OK, thanks, Dale! The pic you included looks kinda tiny on my phone screen... I was peering at it and going "Is that supposed to be Alvin??" LOL...so, per usual, Alvin and Segovia don't make the grade and Joan Jett does, eh? Why am I not surprised?? ;-)

Quote: DLM

Laurie, Bruce was rated at #96, as per usual Mr. Lee isn't rated.
2 over=rated come to my mind
Slash, The Edge

Peace,
DLM

Heck some of the great ones aren't even on the list.
It's only a list, but Rolling Stone Magazine has usually sucked anyway.
They also have a top 500 abum list.
here's the link:



http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-guitarists-20111123

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Bruce rocks. I enjoy him a lot, he's got great energy! I love the song Pink Cadillac as silly as it is, it's fun. That's one I always play loud.

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Great song title, Lynn, and I like silly songs. I can't call to mind how it goes, though! Makes me wanna check it out, so I think I will. Musical taste may be like sexual passion and religion, but it's always good to be open-minded when in the throes of both. ;-)

Quote: Lynn

Bruce rocks. I enjoy him a lot, he's got great energy! I love the song Pink Cadillac as silly as it is, it's fun. That's one I always play loud.

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Well,
I beg to differ. Bruce is THE best live performer that has ever existed and yes, I've seen quite a lot of shows (over 1,000 from rap to rock to jazz to classical to country, etc.) Is he a great guitarist? No, mediocre at best, but he plays with feeling and soul. Is he a good song writer? As good as Dylan and Cash and some of the best America has ever produced. (Don't believe me? Check out songs like Lost in the Flood, Incident on 57th St, Jungleland and Meeting Across the River to name a few.) Bruce has always said that he's got the best "bar" band in the world, and he's right. I've seen him in intimate settings and in humongous arena's and he owns a room like no other. Bono attributes Bruce as teaching him how to work a crowd as does numerous other "giant" performers. Hell, I saw Bruce dancing like Prince years before Prince ever did it!

Can you compare him to Alvin? I think not. He isn't a gunslinger. He is a performer. I have seen Alvin and not to take away from him, but he doesn't hold a candle to working a room like Bruce. No contest. I do appreciate folks on here giving him props for playing a long time, giving people their money's worth, etc., and if he's not your cup of tea, then that's fine, I doubt I could change your mind, but the truth is that you can only judge it against what you've seen and so if you've never seen him, you can't really understand. Bruce plays different sets each night, takes requests, has performed whole albums in their entirety, covers others songs, has others cover his songs, and EVERY story I've read talks about how he makes it a point to talk with fans, show up at places for the fun of it, gets politically involved, does benefits, etc. In short, Springsteen is the real deal and deserves every accolade and award bestowed upon him. To paraphrase Steve Earle, "Springsteen is the greatest living songwriter and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table and scream it out!" Not trying to dis Alvin in the slightest, but the Boss is in a different category. IMO. Peace.

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Hi, Jared! Just happened to peek on the board shortly after your below post. Your praise of Bruce as the greatest performer of all time is pretty extreme, and certainly shows your own devotion to him. To each his or her taste, but I certainly have to disagree with such a sweeping assessment. Better than Paganini? Liszt? Beethoven? Mozart? Not that music is a contest, but still, I doubt it. Better than the Beatles? The Stones? Billie Holiday? Judy Garland? Barbra Streisand? Frank Sinatra? Janis Joplin? Jimi Hendrix? There have been so many fabulous performers, and those are just some of the musicians. I also disagree that Alvin is a mere "gunslinger". He's a formidable guitar virtuoso. He's also a mature artist of depth and passion, as well as a fine singer and songwriter. You've apparently seen Bruce play quite a number of times. You say Alvin doesn't hold a candle to him. How do you know? How many times have you seen Alvin in person? And have you seen him play a smaller venue as well as a larger one? We all know Alvin was spectacular at Woodstock. I for one can't imagine Bruce ever being that stunning and captivating, but that's just me. The last time I saw Alvin perform, though, it was in a blues club, and he rocked the house so hard, he held the whole wildly cheering crowd in the palm of his hand. You prefer Bruce. I prefer Alvin. Bruce is good, I guess, but just doesn't grab me personally. Alvin does. Tastes will always differ. Even so, I can't imagine Bruce as the greatest living songwriter. I need someone to be a better melodist, for one thing, before I could accord that titie. Bruce, better for sheer musicality than Paul McCartney? Joni Mitchell? Donovan? Bruce's lyrics, better than Joni's, better than Bob Dylan's? I don't think so, and admittedly I am curious as to how and why you do. But I'm mostly philosophical about such differences. I do appreciate your devotion to your own favorite. I'm sure he's a great guy. So is Alvin.

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I think few people can argue that one of the best live acts ever was the original Ten Years After doing "I'm going home" at Woodstock in 1969. One of the highlights of the entire film. Saw them in Stockholm a couple of years later - the concert hall was boiling, 4 girls fainted and had to be carried out. Best live act I've ever seen, and like you, I've seen a few..

Alvin may have been a bit of a "gunslinger" (although more like a "peace-slinger") in his youth, but his songwriting, performing and playing has matured into almost perfection over the years, which is why I still am a big fan after 45 years of listening to his music. And I say "almost perfection", because each new CD release shows he still can surprise us with his ever improving, superb musical skills.

New CD out in a couple of days - I recommend both you and everyone else to get it. Alvin today, is better than ever before..

I remember Paganini at La Scala in Milan 1813 - it was almost as good as TYA in Stockholm 1971. But no girls fainted, so it was only "almost".
And here's the original "I'm going home"..

Hey again, Jared! :-) I sometimes debate opinions vigorously, because of my academic background and general inclination to the Grand Old Art of Thought Provocation, but I would never want to flame anyone for differing musical tastes! I mentioned Paganini, etc., because you described Bruce as the greatest performer who's ever existed, which, if true, would logically mean not only better than the Beatles et al of recent times, but also better than Mozart & Gang of yore...quite an accolade, considering their sterling longtime reputations of lofty genius and pyrotechnical virtuosity! ;-) At this point, I think it's a case of "I know MY spouse/partner/ significant other is the most gorgeous person of all time, because of the way I feel when I look at him/her", when we make our respective cases for who's musically "better" or "the best", where our own particular faves are concerned. Bruce fills the bill for you in the close, one-of-the-guys way he apparently interacts with his fans, for one thing. Alvin gives a passionate musical performance onstage, addresses his audiences in a friendly and sometimes witty way, and certainly cares very much about his fans, but if his innate personality is more private or a bit more reserved and less prone to gratuitous displays of overt onstage chumminess, does that make him an inferior performer? Not in my view. I don't look to Alvin to "work a room". I look to him to get up there and simply sing his heart out and set those 6 strings on fire. That always does it for me! More reply forthcoming about some of your other points.

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Hey, B, I was at that same Paganini gig at La Scala in Milan in 1813! What a sublime virtuoso! What a darkly mysterious and romantic figure! No wonder about all those rumors that he'd made a deal with "the devil" for his musical prowess, and that he had murdered his wife, done prison time, and even made violin-strings from her intestines! When the "Little Pagan" made his violin sing "Buona sera" like a human voice, one of his trademarks, I keeled right over in a dead faint! How could you miss it? OK, so it was in a past life, and I looked alot different back then...a short brunette with a red rose in my teeth (till I fainted, anyway), instead of a tall blonde in a Valkyrie helmet! ;-) Ah, one of the most charismatic figures in all history, was Niccolo' Paganini. His legend of supernatural violinistic abilities was so persistent that the Catholic Church refused to bury him on consecrated ground at his death. Years later, exhumed (I think at the instigation of his son Achille) for reburial, it was reportedly found that Paganini's body had scarcely decayed! Normally, when that happens, which all things considered I'd guess is pretty rarely, the Church tends to consider that it might have a "saint" on its hands. Hmmm...just maybe Paganini was angelic, instead of demonic? Or was he just a random alien from the wrong side of the Milky Way, who happened as an infiltrating rapscallion ragazzo to be able to saw out a decent tune on his "father" Antonio's funky old fiddle, somehow fueling a fraudulent furore? We may never know. ;-)

Quote: Borje

I remember Paganini at La Scala in Milan 1813 - it was almost as good as TYA in Stockholm 1971. But no girls fainted, so it was only "almost".
And here's the original "I'm going home"..

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Ah, I was so into Paggies headbanging and double-strokes on the violin, I totally missed you fainting there, Laurie. I may have fainted myself - he sure was a wild one on stage and he played a mean mandolin too, dear old Paginaldo.

LOL, B! Yeah, the Pagmeister really rocked out at that gig, for sure. :-) When he toured England, for real, he was considered "all the rage", and there was even a popular rhyme about him: "It's well worth a guinea.. To hear Paganinny.. To see how he curls his hair!" Tee hee. Not only could he rock the mandolino after fueling up on the spaghettios, but he was also a total whiz on the guitar, seriously... possibly the first real headbanger of sorts. Madonn'! Che virtuoso splendido! ;-)

Quote: Borje

Ah, I was so into Paggies headbanging and double-strokes on the violin, I totally missed you fainting there, Laurie. I may have fainted myself - he sure was a wild one on stage and he played a mean mandolin too, dear old Paginaldo.

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"because you described Bruce as the greatest performer who's ever existed, which, if true, would logically mean not only better than the Beatles et al of recent times, but also better than Mozart & Gang of yore...quite an accolade, considering their sterling longtime reputations of lofty genius and pyrotechnical virtuosity!"

Laurie,
I appreciate your logic, and a good argument, but i NEVER said he was the greatest performer who's ever existed, I said he is the greatest LIVE performer who's ever existed (a slight albeit important distinction). Paginnini, Beethoven, et al were never known for their live performances. The Beatles (whom I will always admire) weren't either (it's hard to play with thousands of screaming teeny boppers tearing at your pant legs). While I'm sure Beethoven (for instance) put on a good show, I really don't think he had a crown of 60,000 eating out of the palm of his hand, as Bruce does on a nightly basis. Bruce's live shows are legendary and for good reason: They are the best. Comparing him to Alvin, to me, is apples and oranges as Alvin is known for his guitar virtuosity and Bruce is not. When Bruce tells a crowd of 60,000 to "sit down, it's gonna be a long night" and 45,000-50,000 acquiesce, that is impressive. When he does a song like "Fire" that was made more famous by the Pointer Sisters and he stops in the middle and has a 2 minute pause, where 50,000 people light lighters, that is also impressive. When he stops singing a song and asks the audience to sing a verse (Jungleland, Rosalita, Hungry Heart, etc) and you can hear them as well as you could hear him, that's impressive. Again, not to dis Alvin, but he isn't able to do that. No offense intended. That is the power of BRUCE.

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Hi again, Jared! I think it's great that Bruce's fans, you included, enjoy connecting with him so much at his shows. He has his performing style, and Alvin has his. Both of them connect strongly with their fans, but you may miss noticing the ways in which Alvin does, because you're so personally in tune with Bruce's. Since the two are so different, to me it's pointless to make it any kind of contest, beyond each of us explaining why one or the other performer is our respective fave. At this point, why the seeming energy about what you feel Alvin "can't" do? I wouldn't care to go onto a message board on Bruce's site and talk about what he can't do, which is play virtuoso guitar...although it's true you didn't start this thread, come to think of it, and you're entitled to your opinions. What the h, it's been an interesting go-around. ;-) My point is, Alvin doesn't choose to try to be like anybody but himself onstage. I don't want to go to an Alvin show and see or hear him acting or playing like Bruce Springsteen... I want him to be Alvin Lee. He has his own definite mystique...an absolute force of nature on the guitar. That's an incredibly powerful draw, an instant connecting point for many of us. His singing and songwriting already touch our hearts, grab us in the guts. He doesn't need to "work a crowd" or verbally urge people to hold up their lighters, etc. That's all fine and dandy for those who do it-- except for my younger brother, whose long hair caught on fire (fortunately quickly extinguished) during "Stairway to Heaven" at a Zeppelin concert in 1977, due to an overzealous soul directly behind him-- but I don't care about that sort of stuff when I'm caught up in the magic of Alvin's music. You should see Alvin in a more intimate venue and a relatively recent one before you think you've seen it all where he's concerned, anyway. As for whether Bruce is the greatest performer of all time, yes, you did say "live performer", but I took that to mean greatest performer, since ALL performers are live performers! Nobody performs dead, after all, though there were those in Paganini's day who no doubt entertained the notion that he could, since many believed he had his violin prowess from "the devil", or even WAS old "Lucifer"! Did you read my posts in this thread about that? Borje and I were joking about seeing "Paggie" in Milan in 1813, of course, but the other stuff about him was for real. Paganini, Mozart, Liszt, and various other composers (Beethoven as a boy and young man, before he went deaf) WERE famous as live performers in their day, absolutely. Mozart and his virtuosa sis Nannerl toured Europe as children impressing the multitudes, for example. And the Beatles were legendary as live performers! What do you think Beatlemania was all about? That fact is not lessened by all the screaming, or how well one could hear them during their last live shows..if they hadn't been such exciting performers, nobody would have screamed to begin with! ;-)

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Laurie,
Excellent post! Most astute and perceptive. Up until your point of classical folks and the Beatles being excellent live performers. The Beatles were very poor live performers, the screaming was about teeny-boppers being in love with them and not really caring if they were playing well or not. Every autobiography and biography I've read about them talks about their poor live shows (not necessarily their fault, mind you). Again, name one good live album The Beatles ever made? You can't.
As for the classical folks, they were live performers, but again I haven't seen them, so it's hard for me to say. I can only go by what I have seen on youtube or read in books. To that end, there was a specific decorum that was followed in seeing them (sadly, still similar in this day and age) that didn't allow for much audience interaction including dancing or even yelling out one's satisfaction. To me, this makes them "less" of a live performer because a pumped-up audience, who's on the edge of their seat, screaming their satisfaction, can often (and do) push a performer to greater heights than ordinarily imaginable (think: Alvin at Woodstock). I want music that will lift me out of my seat and get me dancing, be it Bruce or Alvin. And yes, both have done that for me.
Thanks again for an insightful post! You are gifted.

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Wow, that's quite a compliment, Jared! Thank you! Just peeked onto the board yet again in time to catch your latest. I've read many books on the Beatles, myself... perhaps I should have written that they were *originally* great live performers, and specified that I don't define "great" only in terms of technical perfection, but also of energy and charisma and the sheer force of (usually) brilliant melody. The lads obviously had something going for them in the days of the Cavern Club, Hamburg, etc...and as for Beatlemania, I have to say that if they couldn't actually be heard most of the time because of the screaming, one can't really say for sure that they *weren't* great, ha. People weren't always particularly restrained or decorous at the concerts of fabulous classical composer-performers, either, nor were the performers themselves. "Lisztomania" was an actual phenomenon back in the day, for example, not just the title of a silly and inauthentic '70s Roger Daltrey movie. Liszt, when young and according to his daguerrotypes very handsome (Daltrey didn't hold a candle), was quite a spectacular showman, causing excited throngs, swooning women, etc. My fave documented anecdote about one of his concerts was when two countesses ended up fighting over his snuffbox. I can just picture the two ladies in a knock-down drag-out, with tiaras askew, gowns billowing in all directions, petticoats being rent asunder, and all, LOL...I love it! :-) Paganini concerts were also known to provoke fainting, hysteria, and other extreme reactions, for another example. Even at better-behaved venues, whether of Mozart or whomever, I imagine the atmosphere was electric and the applause and cheers thunderous. A virtuoso was supposed to transport the audience into raptures on his own power, not rely on them to transport him. Oh, for a time machine! ;-)

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Well, I hate to flog a dead horse (ah, who am I kidding, that's the only time I'd ever flog a horse as the live one's will buck and fight, but I am off topic), but I just saw Bruce again 2 weeks ago and I figured I'd update my post.

Reason's why Bruce is the greatest live performer:

On the floor was a runway that cut through the middle of the floor. At one point, he was out on the runway and dove backwards into the crowd and crowd surfed to the front.
He gathered up people's signs that featured requests for songs and grabbed 5-10 of them at different times during the night and played them.
One fan who had requested a song for his 50th birthday was singing along and Bruce brought him on stage to duet with him for a verse of the song.
Bruce also let 2 11 year olds song a verse to one of his song, just giving them the microphone.
He invited several others on stage, as well, to dance and sing. He let people take photos of them with him on their cell phones.
He played 2 full songs to the back of the stage so that those sitting there would have some "face time" as well.
He was the first to hit the stage, and the last to leave, playing for a solid 3 hours with no break.
He did songs with the whole band, he did solo songs with just him.
He told 40,000 people that the next song was going to be a slow one, they might want to sit down...and they did.
He makes sure that his band is almost as famous as he is (most people can actually name members of his band)
He played several songs with all the house lights on, which actually makes it seem that much more in touch with the crowd, less of a "diva" setting and surreal all at the same time.
He let the crowd in the front strum his guitar during the building point of a song.
When he saw some people get up on the walkway to dance, and security was trying to get them down, he yelled out, "No, pay no attention to those guys, Eff them, keep dancing!"
He made **** sure everyone in that coliseum got their money's worth and he's 63 and showing no signs of slowing down.
And the music, well, that's personal preference, but I think the songs are excellent, the musicians great and he is rather prolific, having many cd's worth of music that he never released but still performs. It was everything one could hope for and I took my 11 year old daughter because it was her birthday and she wanted to see it! She is a happy girl, even though he didn't play her favourite song.
Sure wish Alvin would come this way for a show. I miss seeing him!

I am not a fan of Bruce's, simply because his music does not move me, with one exception -- "Streets of Philadelphia". That is a beautiful song, beautifully sung by Mr. Springfield. By the time that song and movie came out I had already lost several gay friends to AIDS. I was living in San Francisco when the epidemic hit. I have no words to express the sadness that we all were living with at that time. Our friends were dropping right and left, most of them died in excruciating pain.

Bruce Springsteen nailed the heartbreaking sentiments exactly in this song, IMHO.

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OK, here is my far-from-definitive-word in my not-even-trying-to-be-humble-nor-objective opinion:

Bruce is OK, good even. I like some of his stuff alot and can't think of anything he's done I really don't like. It's great that he puts on extended shows, although I've been to a Grateful Dead show or two that proved quantity doesn't necessarily equal quality, or even value for the money spent.

So yeah, Bruce is great - but he doesn't induce the frenzied exultation in me he does in many. Maybe I just don't get it, and I'm OK with that.

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He DOES rate quite a few posts on this board, though . . . and a second page, to boot, so that must mean something, although I don't know what . . .

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I always thought the Dead Heads were the show and the Dead themselves were incidental background music. Don't get me wrong, there were moments of brilliance in their shows, it's just that you had to wade through a lot of mediocre jamming and a few train crashes (evidently their minds/chemicals/instruments/hands didn't always exist on the same planet, let alone the same key, tune, or time signature) to get at the good stuff.

The best time I ever had at a Grateful Dead concert was caravanning in a borrowed VW Microbus an hour out of town, having lunch, and caravanning an hour back to town (because, in the minds of one of my friends, it just wasn't the same driving 5 minutes to the venue) and picking up a few Dead Head hitchhikers on the way. I wore my best ratty bleached-out bell bottom jeans, sandals, and the best tie-dyed shirt I could find wrinkled-up in the bottom of my closet. Put on my shades and a leather headband and I was ready. Peace, man!

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I once told a friend there is not a bad song made that has a sax in it.
I said that's like none in a million.
Without flinching, he replied "Is that so? Have you ever heard of Bruce Springsteen?"

Peace,
DLM

I didn't get it in the 70'a & I don't get it today.

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Bruce Springsteen = not musically interesting.

My Brother was a fan when I was growing up. I heard the records.

No matter how hard he tries to indetify himself with working class people I cant imagine any serious musicians identify with Springsteen musically. It's not 'bad' POP music perhaps, the drumming is usually boring & uninspiring at best.

Nice bloke though!

Bruce Springsteen = not musically interesting.

My Brother was a fan when I was growing up. I heard the records.

No matter how hard he tries to indetify himself with working class people I cant imagine any serious musicians identify with Springsteen musically. It's not 'bad' POP music perhaps, the drumming is usually boring & uninspiring at best.

Nice bloke though!

Agree with you.

Great gig by The Who last night

Agree with Niall