Return to Website

Alvin Lee Message & Discussion Board

 

We invite you to use this forum to communicate with Alvin's fans around the world, but please do so with respect and goodwill.
We reserve the right to delete any messages we deem offensive.

 

Guestbook

Forum: Alvin Lee Message & Discussion Board
Start a New Topic 
  
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: 3 things!

I was a heck of lot prouder when Alvin gave permission to Michael Moore to use "ILTCTW" in Fahrenheit 9/11...but hey, that's just my radical side showing.

But Niall, I will yield to the fact that this is an Alvin lee news item, and it's a good thing every time he or one his songs gets recognized.

Re: 3 things!

I do agree with you Toni, I just couldnt let the Alvin lee link to the film go, I wasnt ready, But I've worked thru my issues now!

Re: 3 things!

I have enjoyed many of Mel's films, but agree with Toni - there is no excuse for the abuse and racism he has demonstrated in later years.

I sincerely hope, for his sake, his rantings and actions were the result of some sort of a treatable substance (I've read has issues with alcoholism) or mental health issue and he gets the help he needs.

Email  
Re: 3 things!

Mel does by many accounts seem to have (or have had) a rather nasty drinking problem, which, as is so often the case, could well represent self-medicating for a mood disorder. But the anti-Jewish stuff he's been known to spout seems to stem from the influence of his father, who's reportedly some kind of Holocaust denier from a fringe or splinter "Catholic" extremist sect. I've sometimes wondered if Mel really does try not to be a flaming bigot, as he claims (not that he put it in QUITE those terms, ha), but when he's blotto and broadside, he goes off the deep end and spontaneously channels the weird childhood programming he's likely to have had from "dear" old dad. Who knows. It's too bad. I mean, I believe there's room for scholarly debate about details, theories, interpretations, and allegations pertaining to ANY era of history. The Holocaust is and should be no exception. I've read critiques that have made me question some "established facts" like numbers of fatalities, which camps gassed how many, etc. But so what, in the end, if we never know the exact figures. Nobody sane would deny there WAS a Holocaust, and that too many were wronged in all kinds of ways, then suffered, and died. I do think the term Holocaust should apply to ALL the innocent millions who lost their lives-- civilians; soldiers who only fought other soldiers, and with some semblance of honor amidst all the insanity; political dissidents; gays; gypsies; resistance fighters; etc. No losses were more important than others. At any rate, I've never understood how some people like Gibson pere et fils can claim to be "Christian" and hate Jews, since Jesus was one. Some people are just masters of doublethink, I guess!

Quote: Don B.
I have enjoyed many of Mel's films, but agree with Toni - there is no excuse for the abuse and racism he has demonstrated in later years.

I sincerely hope, for his sake, his rantings and actions were the result of some sort of a treatable substance (I've read has issues with alcoholism) or mental health issue and he gets the help he needs.

Email  
Re: 3 things!

Having had a discussion with a student and his parents that consider themselves Neo-Nazi Christian Ant-Semites, here is the jist of the argument (with which I do NOT agree):

Although Christ was Jewish, he was also the Son of God" and thus half-Jewish (although these folks expressed doubt Mary was Jewish as well) and half-divine. The divinity overshadows being Jewish. But even if you consider Christ half-Jewish, the Jews were responsible for Christ's crucifixion, gave up any claim to Jesus being Jewish or "one of them", and are thus d@mned as a people.

They also claimed the Holocaust was nothing more than a huge hoax perpetuated by Jews world-wide.

Again, just passing along what I was told, certainly NOT beliefs I hold.

Email  
Re: 3 things!

Thanks, Don. No one here would ever believe that you yourself give any credence to that kind of malarkey, never fear. I did actually encounter these arguments and more while doing online and other research into Neo-Nazism about 13 years ago. I was feeling a real deja vu calling to keep tabs on some of these pathetic play-actors, so, among other things, I infiltrated some such online groups under a pseudonym-- not that hard to do since they're so desperate for "recruits"-- and lurked a lot. It was a real eye-opener. These peops are like bored little kids playing dress-up with swastikas, costumes, fanciful titles in bad German, and all the other sinister and silly accoutrements of their twisted mythology, pledging their undying devotion to images of a raving lunatic whose own SS men likely bumped him off in the bunker at the end (according to one convincing forensics theory I read, contrary to the usual suicide theory). These gaga goosestepper-wannabes are clearly trying to create some excitement and a sense of importance and a "mission" in their drab little lives. Even knowing that certain beliefs are held doesn't make it any easier to understand *how* they can be reasonably held, of course. There seems to be nothing the human mind cannot rationalize if it's a "mind" to, sadly. You'd think these people would wonder why "God" would make Jesus even half-Jewish if being Jewish is such a bad thing, and get a clue that since "He" did (following along the same reasoning and language, which does not represent my own religious belief, however), that there just might be a divine plan in the works involving Jewishness, for all they know. NONE of it makes any kind of sense to me from either side of the fence, though. I don't believe in a "chosen people", the same way I don't believe in a "master race". What's the difference? There isn't one. Had the former concept never existed, the latter reverse mirror image of it would never have eventually come about in response, however grotesquely and tragically. I don't believe in personal savior figures that people are supposedly required, by some peevish Invisible Puppetmaster in the Sky, to "believe" in on "faith", with no real evidence, yet threat of dire punishment, and contrary to all reason. To me, it's a wildly inefficient "plan" on the part of the Powers That Be, who, if indeed omnipotent, could have been a whole Hel of a lot more direct in creating everything and every body to His/ Her/Their liking and behavior standard to begin with, without all the tortuous thou-shalt-nots and "salvation" stuff. The latter is only too convenient to the driven agendas of the insidious and often self-deluded control-freak types who chronically set themselves up as the "authorities" of organized religion. No thanks, folks. Lovable and ornery curmudgeon that I be, yea verily yea and ha verily ha, I do believe in the Grand Old Art of Thought Provocation whenever I can manage to throw it in, like right now, heh heh. Aw, truth to tell, it just flows forth spontaneously, what can I say. I may not be a laidback devotee of Comfy-Cozy Goddess, but I happen to believe we never will change the world if more of us don't start taking more risks in our thinking and communicating much more of the time, and stop clinging to Her oft truth-concealing skirts so often. Boring!! Once more into the fray, me hearties! Yowee!! ;-)

Quote: Don B.
Having had a discussion with a student and his parents that consider themselves Neo-Nazi Christian Ant-Semites, here is the jist of the argument (with which I do NOT agree):

Although Christ was Jewish, he was also the Son of God" and thus half-Jewish (although these folks expressed doubt Mary was Jewish as well) and half-divine. The divinity overshadows being Jewish. But even if you consider Christ half-Jewish, the Jews were responsible for Christ's crucifixion, gave up any claim to Jesus being Jewish or "one of them", and are thus d@mned as a people.

They also claimed the Holocaust was nothing more than a huge hoax perpetuated by Jews world-wide.

Again, just passing along what I was told, certainly NOT beliefs I hold.

Email