Hi Ronnie. I don't know anything about guitar playing but I know a great deal about shapely women behaving badly.

Of course, "badly" is in the eye of the beholder.

We shapely women have a natural instinct for trouble, but we also work hard to refine our tricks for maximum effect.

Shapely women...guitar...shapely woman..guitar...noticed a lot of that when I was on the road..:)

The design is more a result of optimizing both function and comfort than any subliminal suggestion of a woman's shape.
If you look at the early ancestors of guitar, they were generally round in shape.
As the design evolved, they became flat on the front and back, and had that rough figure 8 shape, not an hour glass figure, which made it easier to support the instrument in your lap.

Guitars don't talk back.

Women get the last word in every argument.

Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.


Peace,
DLM

Uh-oh. Guitars don't talk back? That makes men sound like the power or authority figures, and women the presumptuous, overreaching, or misbehaving little kids. "Not while Ah got breaf in mah body!", to quote Scarlett O'Hara's mammy in *Gone With the Wind*. Come on, my friend. Women don't have the last word in every argument. There are plenty of men out there who get it-- with their fists. It happened to me once out of the blue, right on my skull, and several times, when I was trying to break up with somebody who I'd come to realize was, let's just say, somewhat psychiatrically challenged, however intellectually and artistically brilliant. (That's not how I put it to him. I'd barely gotten out the words that I thought we'd be better off apart.) It happened again when the same guy put his fist through a window in one of my doors the next day, and again when he encountered me on a busy street some days after that and socked me hard in the stomach, right there with cars going by. Fortunately a concerned passerby called the police, so come to think of it, I guess I did get the very last word, after all. Except for my PTSD and advanced neck arthritis from having my neck vertebrae knocked into something of a reverse curve, that is. But enough of my painful candor. I digress. I'm not convinced guitars were meant to look like women's torsos, either. But should we really assume the most ancient guitar ancestors were designed by men?

Ouch! Laurie, I assure you none was meant that way,Iam so sorry to hear of that experience,I once witnessed a situation like that and went to the ladies rescue and knocked the guy out and she stabbed me in the arm with a comb for hitting her boyfriend, go figure, anyway I for one did not nor think anything of a sort about any woman
I admire the female for her strength and wisdom,and could not and would not have survived without their guidance,

Hi DLM. At the risk of Laurie taking umbrage at what I am about to say - with a perfectly good right to do so -- sometimes a woman picks a fight because what she really wants is the makeup sex.

Awww, Ronnie, you are always such a Sweetie. Is there anything about you that isn't adorable?

welllllll now ya mention it, I has this toe, I broke ridin dirt bikes its turned kinda weird, other than that ,,,,No1

Ronnie, you got me giggling like a schoolgirl. I bet your bent toe is adorable too.

Robin, NOW you tell us.....!

Hi Tony. I think some women don't even realize that this is what they are doing but I have seen it time and time again. As for me, I always know what I am doing.

Thanks for the support, dear Sixy. I have no quarrel with you whatsoever on the subject of women. It's good to know you went to the aid of a woman being attacked, and I can only say she must have been nuts, drunk, or on something to stab you for saving her. I've known plenty of women in an assortment of settings in my six decades, and I can't think of a one of them who wouldn't have appreciated what you did. Love ya, bud!

Wow, Robin. At the risk of *your* taking umbrage, I find your latest posts in this thread to be pretty disconcerting, to say the least. Not one word of sympathy or support for my painful admission of having been the victim of physical assault and getting stuck with lasting injury as a result, but instead, flirting and being cute with the guys in the thread and "risking" my "umbrage" with a comment about women who pick fights for make-up sex. Pardon my meow. Speak for yourself, sister. And you don't need to compete with me like that for the male attention here. There's plenty of room for both of us, and more women, besides. Now, mutual lovers' spats being resolved in the sack are one thing, and that's obviously not what you meant. NO woman who isn't seriously sick in the head actually risks assault and injury of her person by picking a real fight for a mere tumble in the hay. NO man is THAT good in bed. A woman is nothing and nobody without her dignity and self-respect. You might get your jollies from letting men think lots of women are just itching to abase themselves for a shag, but MOST women don't and aren't. I don't know the female company you keep, but NO woman I know would ever be that dumb or masochistic. Well, this has all been most enlightening, Robin. I think I need a vacation from this board.

Ouch, Robin. I hate to say this but any woman who picks a fight because she wants "makeup sex" is probably in a pretty sick relationship.

I truly am sorry for posting that Quote, Please forgive me,However I did not know or even consider one of us had that kind of experience, I have had a few of those in my life time and I know others have had as well,Most of the time the effect an event has on us is up to us,The actual happening my have not been our fault, just in the wrong place at the wrong time,and we had no control over the rock fallin and smackin us on the head,But we do have control of what happens after that,we can continue the experience by blaming every rock we come too,even though its already on the ground,Or center on not standing where a watch for falling rock sign is clearly visible. I don't feel that anyone here has meant to cause you any harm at all,we are friends not your enemy
and I do feel that your have been hurt very deep, but please don't allow that to go any further, the guy that did that does not even remember, but your allowing yourself to get hit everyday. BIG HUG!! love 601

Laurie, in all my years of acting as an advocate for battered women and children, you are the very first woman who has ever accused me of being unsympathetic or unsupportive. I do not comment on the vast majority of postings here on this board. Never did I suspect that you expected me to comment on your personal situation.

As for my flirting and being “cute with the guys”-- If I had acknowledged and expressed public sympathy and support for your experience, would you still object to my "flirting"?

“And you don't need to compete with me like that for the male attention here. There's plenty of room for both of us, and more women, besides.”

Holy Cow! I never compete with any woman for male attention. Who would do something like that on an internet community board? What would be the point? Why you would make a statement such as this is so far beyond my comprehension I am not going to touch it except to say that when I read Ronnie’s post to you about liking it when you talk to him that way, I chuckled and said to myself – “that Laurie has a style all her own.”

“NO woman who isn't seriously sick in the head actually risks assault and injury of her person by picking a real fight for a mere tumble in the hay.”

I have seen too many women actively provoke serious assault and injury by picking a real fight with a man – and yes these women are seriously sick in the head. They are severely damaged from a lifetime of abuse from men and the only way they know how to relate to men is by being a punching bag. If anyone else had interpreted my little comment as applying to this type of situation I would normally write a carefully worded response, but since more than once you have read things into my posts that I do not intend, I am just going to let this one go.

“You might get your jollies from letting men think lots of women are just itching to abase themselves for a shag, but MOST women don't and aren't.”

How you got it into your head that my intentions were to make men think women are itching to debase themselves is something I will never understand. I am not going to even try.

I would think you would be the first to understand that there are infinite varieties and levels of “picking a fight” . In a recent comment to me you indicated that I am not the first to say something to get a rise out of you. I had this comment of yours in mind when I posted that little remark to one of the men here on the board. Never did I think you would leap to such distorted interpretations of my intent. In fact, I purposely made the remark about your taking umbrage because I expected you to comment. But, I fully expected a playful comment, not this. Bad judgement on my part, I agree.

“I don't know the female company you keep, but NO
woman I know would ever be that dumb or masochistic.”

I keep company with the women of the world, Laurie. Perhaps you have never seen a comedy situation in a movie or television episode where a man and a woman talk at cross purposes to one another knowing full well that what they are doing is setting up a situation in which they get heated and then fall into each other’s arms for a passionate embrace and kiss. I see absolutely nothing dumb or masochistic or undignified in a little teasing of a man to get his his adrenaline going. Clearly you do.

I did not feel the need to say that “picking a fight” has to be done with finesse and great skill. I noticed that at least one man on the board knew exactly what I was talking about. I doubt if he thought my intention was to make men think “women are itching to debase themselves”.

I regret that you find the board so shockingly offensive because of me that you need a vacation. I could offer to change into a person you find less objectionable, but I doubt if I could keep it up for long. I just don’t know how to be fake.

I find it beyond bizarre that you think I am competing with you for male attention. I am always happy when anyone here on the board communicates with me, male and female. I enjoy communicating with you too. It is a wonder to me to find that you often interpret my posts in a manner which makes them unrecognizable to me. Sometimes you take my words to mean what I intend and other times you interpret them in ways that boggle my mind. I never know which Laurie is going to respond to something I write here on the board.

Hi Toni. I copied and pasted parts of two of the statements I made to Laurie in hopes of clarifying my comments. I hope this helps to explain myself more clearly:

1. "I have seen too many women actively provoke serious assault and injury by picking a real fight with a man – and yes these women are seriously sick in the head. They are severely damaged from a lifetime of abuse from men and the only way they know how to relate to men is by being a punching bag."

2. [an example of what I mean] -- "...a comedy situation in a movie or television episode where a man and a woman talk at cross purposes to one another knowing full well that what they are doing is setting up a situation in which they get heated and then fall into each other’s arms for a passionate embrace and kiss. I see absolutely nothing dumb or masochistic or undignified in a little teasing of a man to get his his adrenaline going."

I am very uncomfortable with the whole idea of picking a fight or argument, period, but especially for manipulation in a relationship. Always have been. If I sense a woman demonstrates a pattern of using conflict to manipulate, I am out of there amd down the road, pronto. I hate, and will not abide, drama.

Why not be open about the desire to have hot sex and steam up the windows with passion?

Oh my, my. Laurie, I am so sorry you ever had to deal with any form of abuse. Thank you for sharing such a personal thing - it shows that it can happen to anyone, even strong, independent, creative women like you. I apologize for not posting it about it sooner - I've been too busy to read all the board posts until today.

I admit Robin's comments in this thread were off putting to me too - but I'd like to hear from her on what she was thinking.

On a day when the Republicans in the House just passed a bill that essentially says lesbians, Native Americans and undocumented women shouldn't be protected from domestic violence at all, and that puts an undue burden of proof on all victims, it's more important than ever that ALL women stand together on this issue.

That said, please do not take a break from this board - every time you're gone for a while I panic thinking that you might not come back!

Hear, hear!

Hi Don, I mentioned to Laurie that this little game has to be done with a lot of finesse and skill to be sure that there is no misunderstanding. It is just a tiny little fun game with both participants fully aware of what is going on.

There is no manipulation, there is no drama. Just a little harmless fun. I guess it is hopeless to try to explain what was meant to be just a playful little comment.

"Why not be open about the desire to have hot sex and steam up the windows with passion?"

Well, to me it is perfectly obvious and open that the desire is as you describe, but I am done trying to explain it. (Sigh)

toga toga toga toga toga toga!!! I like orgies, only with women however!! sorry don!!! I had one shaped like a kettle drum once!! liked ta have killed me!! I still have nightmares!!wellllll bad dreams!! would ya belive don't think bout it much!

Bitte verzeihen Sie diesen stummen Mann, ich bin nicht perfekt aber ich habe nicht zu verwirren worden wie dieser Butthead ausgesetzt hat, um dich, ich um Witz, aber wie du weißt, ich habe großen Respekt für das, was dein Gefühl und nicht zu schmälern, dass in jeder übrigens habe ich irgendwann mit einem Witz zu reagieren, nur um die Atmosphäre zu erweichen, Nein für dich ich hoffe, Sie können diese klar in deinem Herzen, damit es nicht zu tun Weinkenntnisse Schäden, wie Toni Bitte nicht weglaufen, ich werde dich schlecht zu verpassen. Ihr My Pal!

I forgot to address a followup comment I made to my original comment. Sometimes men or women get moody and don't know why they are irritable with their partners, when what they really need and want is to have physical relations. That is what I meant about "picking a fight" for the make-up sex.

And yes, I unabashedly enjoy flirting and teasing. I doubt if I will ever ever stop until the day I drop dead.

NOW I am done with this topic.

Yo, was soll der Schmarrn, schluss damit,

I thought I was done with this, but I am going to make one more attempt to clear my name from the odious implications attributed to my position that sometimes it is fun to tease a lover. Hopefully Shakespeare can illustrate the point better than I could in this excerpt from "Venus and Adonis".


"For through his mane and tail the high wind sings,
Fanning the hairs, who wave like feather’d wings.
He looks upon his love, and neighs unto her;
She answers him as if she knew his mind;
Being proud, as females are, to see him woo her,
She puts on outward strangeness, seems unkind,
Spurns at his love and scorns the heat he feels,
Beating his kind embracements with her heels.
Then, like a melancholy malcontent,
He vails his tail that, like a falling plume
Cool shadow to his melting buttock lent:
He stamps, and bites the poor flies in his fume.
His love, perceiving how he is enrag’d,
Grew kinder, and his fury was assuag’d.
His testy master goeth about to take him;
When lo! the unback’d breeder, full of fear,
Jealous of catching, swiftly doth forsake him,
With her the horse, and left Adonis there.
As they were mad, unto the wood they hie them,
Out-stripping crows that strive to over-fly them."

Perhaps more than anything else, I'm just projecting my own personal philosophy. If other ways of doing things gets other people off, more power to them.

I have a very strong aversion to games - they just make me feel really sick inside - and, other than a few sad exceptions, I've always steered clear of women with a need for drama- at least since high school.

Hey Don,

I understand. I completely failed to explain that my comments have nothing to do with drama or emotional mind games. Just a little teasing can have a very dramatic positive effect, but I totally get where you are coming from.

Personally, I am allergic to adrenaline, it gives me a stomach ache. I have had too much of it in my life.

The only excitement I enjoy is from listening to music or responding to someone who is letting me know he is interested in me. But, here I am going back to the beginning of what got me in trouble in the first place so... moving on.

EDIT: I am so extremely allergic to adrenaline that I start shaking every time the phone rings or my ex brings in the mail. My first thought is always -- "Who is intruding in my life this time and what is about to destroy my peace of mind?"

Re: "Guitars are shaped like women, but they behave better"

I thought I was done with this, but I am going to make one more attempt to clear my name from the odious implications attributed to my position that sometimes it is fun to tease a lover. Hopefully Shakespeare can illustrate the point better than I could in this excerpt from "Venus and Adonis".



Ajax can't clear ya name now! UUUUUUUU Flirt!hahahahaha!
Now ya gotta drag po ole Shakie into it!! that fool been gone for at lest 50 years now!! let da man sleep fo the love of god!!And I ain't got time ta look up all those words!! that guy talks funny!!

Drinkin games make me feel sick inside!! then I throws up and try it again!!

Yes, Ronnie, you are right -- I am hopeless. I will wear the scarlett letter and stop trying to defend myself. I admit I am guilty as hell.

U U U Bad!! Momma sez u da debvil!!

Listen to your Mamma and keep away from wicked women, Baby.

But dey dA best!!I am confused???

Well at least you show persiverance, Ronnie!

thanks for da wake up call Pal!

Nichts zu verzeihen, Sixy-Schatzi. Mach dich keine Sorge darum! Ich laufe bestimmt nicht weg. Wenn ich so was machte, vermisste ich dich zu viel! ;-)

Thanks, dear Toni. And don't panic! I am a woman of my word. I promised I was back for good, and so I am. Alvin and gang, you have not heard nor read the last from Fanny Fret-Fandango! ;-) I just needed a wee break from my own drama on here in confiding about the assaults I experienced, and besides, my daughter's 30th birthday was yesterday. Having a lazy day today trying to catch up on a bit of rest and relaxation. Tomorrow it's bunchfuls of errands and a trip to the gym. Yup, I gots dem ole Kozmic Use It or Lose It Blues, folks! :-)

The imagery used in this poem by "Shakespeare" is clearly about a woman playing hard to get, which often has very little to do with sexually "teasing" a man who's an established lover "for fun", and much to do with seriously wishing to make clear in a mutual new attraction that she's not too easy, can't be won too quickly, expects to be respected, and isn't going to fall like a witless ninny at any man's feet. The number of old folk songs and popular sayings to do with the notorious fickleness of men in general (yeah, yeah, guys, I know, it's Nature's Programming, but still...) make it clear why many women, especially in old-fashioned days where there was such great shame and very likely economic vulnerability attached to being an "unwed" mother, ended up adopting such a proud strategy when wooed. (BTW, I put "Shakespeare" in quotes because I have long agreed with the position taken by increasing numbers of scholars, as appears in books such as Charles Beauclerk's *Shakespeare's Lost Kingdom* and in the recent major movie "Anonymous", that the real Bard of Bards was actually Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, a highly-educated multi-talent of the day, fluent in several languages. He was the probable "b@st@rd" son of Elizabeth I by Lord Thomas Seymour while in her mid-teens, who was raised in the peerage and later came to write behind the public front of the little-educated, barely literate actor and erstwhile grain merchant from Stratford-upon Avon. Whew and what ho. Fascinating stuff, forsooth, and one of my pet intellectual causes to champion, admittedly.) But to each her own loveplay style and poetry interps. Robin, I think I probably understand you pretty well much of the time, considering the inherent limitations of communicating online in a message board format with people most of whom one has never met. At least, before your recent birthday and wedding trip, you praised me for my understanding and communicating. I thought we were becoming friends, so in light of that I didn't and still don't see why you would bring up women picking fights for make-up sex, even anticipate my "taking umbrage" at that, directly after I'd confided painful accounts of being an assault victim. It was the timing and placement of what you wrote, not whether you comment on every post as a rule. If *you'd* just confided something of that nature here, I would feel that sensitivity dictate a comment from me, since we normally do reply to each other's posts. I would feel a natural sympathy moving me to do so, in any case. OK, so goody and whoop-de-do for me. Whatever. I don't care if you flirt the day away in here if you feel like it. When I've a mind, I can banter and flirt with the best, believe me. No secret about that around here. Again, it was just the timing of your suddenly flirting with the "adorable" guy who'd just expressed overt sympathy for me, as you didn't. It did seem you were on some level trying to capture his attention away from me. Though I think Sixy is quite capable of paying attention to us both, and more besides, ha. Your "behavior" in this seemed in the moment like the kind of undermining female game-playing I just can't stand. I should probably not have been so direct with you over it in front of the rest of the board, however, and I regretted doing so later. It's great if you've counseled battered women, but I know nothing about you in that context. On the board you've given the impression that you have a sexual appreciation for the idea of being overpowered by bad boys who like guns as well as fast cars and motorcycles, which is why I did think you might enjoy playing the submissive who defends those bad boys, rather than the women they've abused. Cont. soon...

Happy Birthday to your beautiful daughter, Laurie!

Thanks, Toni! I'll tell her you said so! :-)

Robin, I had to leave off suddenly during the reply I was writing you earlier, though it had gotten a bit long already as it was. Guess I don't have that much more to add right now, except to emphasize again that I have NO objection to flirting in and of itself, by you or anyone, here or anywhere-- that's totally beside the points I've been trying to make. Nor do I have any problem whatsoever with lovers who tease and are playful with each other in whatever ways get them both off. Consenting adults, and all that. I've been around the block a few times, and I know all about nuance and finesse in the boudoir and beyond, as you may imagine. But when you brought up women picking fights for make-up sex in direct response to my admission about having been assaulted when an ex lost control of himself, it sure didn't seem to be gentle, playful teasing you were referring to as the behavior engaged in and the result sought by the women in question. If it was, why would you expect me to "take umbrage" at mere mention of it?? By the same token, why would I be in the mood right after such painful candor to joke around with you on the board about fighting of any kind? When/if someone I know tries to get a rise out of me, it's often because they take a perverse pleasure in seeing what I'll spout off about next, not usually while I'm on the subject of my having once gotten my neck vertebrae knocked into a reverse curve (visible only by x-ray, fortunately, but it sure doesn't feel good when I get massive arthritic spasms like a knife being slowly twisted in the back of my neck) by a guy who supposedly loved me pounding me in the skull several times in a handful of seconds. But you know, you and I are human, and we're not perfect, and each of us has her own quirks and failings and reasons for being who we are, and message board communications are very limiting at the best of times. For my part, I'm sorry I was so direct with you in my criticism in front of the whole board. I should have waited to post later, because when I looked at the board that morning, I was already frazzled from insufficient sleep and a freakin' frustrating family matter (about rural property I co-own in another county with my bro and two aging, crazy-makingly contrary aunties, Goddess bless 'em both-- I think). Sigh. Not to mention: aagh!! So... I hope we can just scratch all this, Robin, move beyond it, and start over. Life's too short, as I'm always saying. We may differ about certain things, but we have many interests in common, not least of which is our beloved Alvin.

And happy birthday from me Too!

Dank tut mir so leid für Ihren Erfahrungen und causeing Sie eine solche Veranstaltung rememeber, gut süßen Herzen sein.

and happy birthday from me too!

Dank tut mir so leid für Ihren Erfahrungen und causeing Sie eine solche Veranstaltung rememeber, gut süßen Herzen sein.

Laurie, since Toni deleted my post to you in which I stated that I will never again explain myself, defend myself, or justify myself to you, I am not going to hold myself to that statement.

Regarding your above comments -- I merely complimented Ronnie, in my often overly exuberant way, for the very sweet message of support he sent to you. You chose to interpret it as my vying for his attention. The thought never entered my mind, and the fact that you felt the need to call me out for something that was in your own imagination tells me that you and I are on completely different wavelengths.

I respectfully conclude that since you interpret most of my posts in ways that have nothing to do with who I am as a person, I am no longer going to respond to any of your messages to me. I will give you the same respect by refraining from commenting on your posts, or commenting on the posts of other board members when they are communicating with you. Peace

Robin, you can reply or not as you like, but I didn't realize there was a post from you that Toni deleted-- apparently she removed it before I had a chance to see it. Since she rarely deletes anything, that really makes me wonder about its contents! My initial reaction to your comment about picking fights for make-up sex, as you responded to my confiding about having been the victim of physical assault, was about *me*, not you. I didn't "choose" to interpret anything about you or what you wrote in a negative light. There was no malice aforethought, or any malice at all-- it was a quick, honest reaction of simple hurt feelings. I was put off and actually a bit stunned by what struck me as real insensitivity on your part at the time. It's my nature to be forthright in sorting something out-- it's my Danish from my Great-Grandpa Laurids-- and so I was. I'm not one for never straying beyond easy, comfy-cozy chit-chat, I admit. Yet after all this, even after *I* apologized to *you* for being so direct with you in front of the board by posting my hurt feelings when I was in an already frazzled, sleep-deprived state, you *still* apparently don't care to see the incident in light of that, my injury, and the vulnerable PTSD space you might have realized I was coming from as I wrote. You might have said you were sorry about the assaults or my injuries, and never did. You still haven't. You've also done a complete, sudden reversal on me by withdrawing your previous praise of my understanding of you and communicating with you. OK, fine. I guess I don't really wanna play dollies with you any more either. The thing is, alot of why I suggested a truce and do-over was for the sake of the rest of the board. They can read these specific posts or not as they choose, depending on their stomach for conflict resolution, but over an extended period of time, seeing our respective posts ignoring each other on an ongoing basis, it's going to be very noticeable and uncomfortable for them knowing there's a frigid, rigid distance between us. I can't understand wanting to maintain such a hard, stony barrier, myself. Life is short and people are human. I'm also thinking about Alvin, whose board this is. He's not a mincer of words, either, but he's a real believer in peace as an ideal and goal. If there's anything I'm aware Alvin can't stand, it's a fuss or a senseless squabble. So pardon my native directness again, but what's the point of wishing me "Peace" at the end of your current post if you're not willing to engage in it or work toward it with me? Peace takes real effort. You know that. I'm trying to make it. I hope sooner or later you will too.