Alvin Lee Message & Discussion Board
I admit it. I'm part of a vast left-wing conspiracy with a burning agenda to persecute George Zimmerman and accuse him wrongfully of a hate crime against Trayvon Martin. Fueled by our semi-sinister ties with the New Black Panther Party, if there's a racial conclusion to jump to, we'll be sure to jump to it. No assumption about Zimmerman's guilt is too great or too unreasonable for us to make. We play so fast and so loose with the facts, we recently qualified for our own Olympic team! NOT. Heh. Actually, I think many of us who've been highly suspicious of Zimmerman, black or white, have simply had honest ongoing reactions to news as it's been reported. Period. I for one am not out to get this guy, anyway. But it's been said over and over that young Martin was followed by Z., and we've heard the actual 911 tape where Z. clearly admits he's following M., and is told he shouldn't continue. We know M. ended up shot to death, claimed by Z. to be self-defense. All this does look bad for Z. on the face of it. Suddenly now we're being told that Z. gave up the chase, was returning to his car, and M. came up from behind and assaulted him. Why is this version just now coming out? What was so top-secret about it before? What a tangle. Curiouser and curiouser, indeed!
Hi Laurie. The bottom line is that another young black male is dead. Guns, questionable circumstances, questionable responses by police and powers that be. It is all so tragic and unnecessary. The Black community is tired of it. And so are those of us who have empathy for their sorrows. Will it ever end? Not in my lifetime, sadly.
Would not the death of a young man of any race amidst suspicious circumstances be just as tragic? There is no way we are going to end racial discrimination as long as we continue to assume race is the motive for crimes or other actions.
Crime is crime and there are laws to punish those who commit them. Let's quit wasting time trying to assume motive, creating a greater social issue, and trying suspects in the court of public opinion. Investigate, arrest, try, and punish the criminal, the way our legal system is supposed to work.
Unfortunately, many think exactly like Jesse Jackson - who ought to know better - assuming any crime committed by anybody other than a black person victimizing a black person is a hate crime. Apparently, faulty logic using little or no evidence is the order of the day.
Right now, we don't know what the h*ll happened. As screwed-up as this investigation is - and as crazy as the circus-like atmosphere surrounding this crime is - we may never know.
One final note - isn't persuing a "suspicious" person, when emrgency personnel tells you not to, a crime?
By the way, any person who commits any hate crime is despicable in my book and, if there is proof warranting conviction of hate crimes, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Hi Don,
I was referring specificially to the sad statistics of violent death among young black males in the United States.
I agree with you on all points. I think it is fatuous to assume that a crime involving members of different racial or cultural groups is racist or bigoted.
The way I see it, a jerk or a crook or an incompetent is simply that... regardless of the color of his/her skin.
BTW -- I am a passionate advocate for the rights of white males to be treated with the same respect that minorities and women want for themselves. I have an ex-husband and 2 sons who don't deserve to be painted with a black brush and I assume that the majority of white males are equally innocent of the monstrous crimes and behaviors attributed to this much-maligned segment of our population.
Mr.B.
I would agree with everything you said except,
I don't think persuing a person is a crime.
You have to rely on your judgment.
Your suspicion of a threat could be confirmed with one incident.
It could take a series of incidents. In the long run, it comes down to:
• Experience
• Judgment
• Commonsense
Peace,
DLM
I still say there's a difference between "assuming" and having a strong suspicion based on news reports as a working theory until hearing otherwise. While we're not assuming things, let's not assume that all black folks, or even all black folks at Trayvon rallies, or all any folks at them, have a one-dimensional blaming view of Zimmerman. I've heard no few interviewed who *are* making assumptions about guilt, but also some who actually aren't, and attend a rally "in case", because it's an interesting event, because there are issues being discussed that they care about, etc. I believe in due process of law (except when the mood is on me to overthrow governments worldwide and declare myself Supreme Queen of Stuff, that is); however, I'm not at all comfortable coming down too hard on people whose view of this case is heavily colored by appearances *because of long and painful experience that IS based on race*. Let them talk out their feelings and frustrations in public, say I. They're entitled to free speech, and it hasn't really been all that many years since many of them wouldn't have been entitled to it in many states, for shame. Let them go through what they're going through. If they're wrong and have to change their views, let them go through that too. It ain't gonna kill us. But the New Black Panther Party calling for reverse vigilante action, with a Wanted poster on Zimmerman and reward out, *is* dangerous in this instance, I think. I heard a scary interview on CNN with a member or associate last eve who was not only assuming Zimmerman's guilt, but was woefully ignorant of several key points of law. This was a potential "citizen's arrest" I for one don't like to have to contemplate. Finally, I heard an interview today with Joe Oliver, former CNN correspondant, black man, and apparently a friend of George Zimmerman, that does give me very serious pause. He says he doesn't know Z.'s whereabouts, but has spoken with him, and Z. is very remorseful, cried for days after the shooting, and is being treated for PTSD. I don't know what to think now, and I'm not assuming anything.
Ordinarily I would agree, but I know of incidents of individuals not following the directions of emergency personnel - including 911 operators - who were charged and convicted of crimes ranging from interfering emergency response to interfering with a peace officer, to obstruction of justice.
However, these were California cases and I'm no lawyer. I have no ideas what Florida law is.
Hey Laurie, I agree with you that people should be free to express their thoughts and feelings. I just hope that the voices of reason prevail in the end over the voices of emotion.
Laurie we're talking semantics here. There are a lot of people - not all - making a lot of statements making a lot of assumptions about this case. It may be out of frustration or suspicion, and it may be from experiences or a history of discrimination, but assumptions are being made.
Jesse Jackson - "If it's black on black, that's one thing. If it's white on black, it's a hate crime."
Al Shapton -"Arrest Zimmerman now!"
Tracy Martin - "The temporary step down of Bill Lee is nothing. We want an arrest. We want a conviction, and we want him charged for the murder of our son."
The New Black Panthers announcing a bounty on Zimmerman.
All show assumptions about evidence and guilt.
Having said that, the investigation has shown no signs of doing anything right, causing people to become frustrated with thejustice system.
Chances are some people are too angry and frustrated to let it happen, but we need to let the justice system do its job. Perhaps more importantly, those investigating the killing need to get off their collective @rses and DO their jobs.
I've never disagreed that there are people making assumptions about Zimmerman, dear Don! I've repeatedly acknowledged that they exist. You yourself have made at least one about him by referring to him in a recent post as a "clown". Maybe he's not one, and maybe he was really defending himself, just as maybe he's not a racist. I'm just defending those of us who might seem to be making assumptions who actually aren't, and some who are because I feel for why they might be. I'm pursuing some finer points to be thought-provoking. Considering nuances and complexities and the very real and pertinent realities they represent isn't merely hashing out semantics. There's more than one way to look at and feel about some of these points of discussion, that's all.