I think Lorraine looks just fine in the first pic. I'm sure no one in this thread meant her any disrespect, but-- is it just me, or does she deserve better than to be referred to as "the Roly-Poly Chick" and have her appearance and photos critiqued on here in several posts? Maybe I'm the only one rubbed the wrong way by it-- I'm grieving for my mom pretty heavily today, so maybe that's colored my reaction--but it's what I honestly feel, so what the Holy Hel, I'll share it for whatever it's worth. Now, I understand the word "chick" was rampant in the hippie community, and I just let it roll off me back then, but because of the flip and objectifying vibe many guys give it, frankly, many of us mature women have heard it just a few zillion times too many. Just to clue some of you guys in. And-- so much for not discussing Alvin's personal life on the board, guys, as Toni and I told Robin the other day we don't do! Yeah, yeah, stuff's out there, and Alvin's a public persona and all, and brief references are one thing, but let's not get TOO carried away. ;-)
Hi Laurie, Sorry you are suffering. I think grief for our loved ones is a tribute to them.
I made a small little joke about the girl sitting next to Alvin in a picture which was more of a burn on myself than the object of my comment. I also made a few remarks which I consider to be a tribute to the beauty of the girl. And finally, I made a comment that I do not think looks are important.
OK, enough self-serving defense from me.
Where I come from, Los Angeles, the term "chick" was in use long before hippies came along. The Beats used it freely as well. It was only when women started to be vocal about not wanting to be called "broad", "chick" "girl" that we learned it was considered to be offensive to many women.
Personally, I like to be called "Baby".
Hey Robin! :-) I wasn't bothered by anything you specifically wrote about Lorraine, and yes, I noticed your comment about looks ultimately not being most important. (Though of course they normally are important in attraction, and to each his or her own in that regard.) I still think L looks perfectly fine in the first pic, which I personally find the more interesting photo, but that's just me. Anyway, admittedly my discomfort was from the overall slightly extended critiquing of her appearance in the thread with frequent usage by the guys of the objectifying, trivializing word "chick", and the joking comparison of her with Chick Churchill, though I understand that was just a bit of clever wordplay our dear Don found too hard to resist, so it's scarcely an earthshaking matter. I admitted I was in a grieving mood, and tried to show myself open to other perspectives, but I'm feeling better and less rubbed the wrong way about the whole thing today. My opinions on controversial or touchy subjects are meant to be thought-provoking, and I see no way to do that without being frank in a manner that sometimes stretches comfort zones. I don't think it hurts guys to learn what words many women find offensive. I've noticed many guys have a lot more trouble taking simple criticism or forthrightness or instruction of any kind from a woman than from a man. That's something I'm just not inclined to cater to. We're all big boys and girls here. So... we can hang in there and get past our misunderstandings and discomforts and learn some things from each other, if we ever want to discuss meaningful subjects and not just chit-chat or shoot the breeze, right? Though those can be fun and worthwhile too.
Hi again, Robin. "Chick" was definitely pre-hippie and has pretty much been around for ages in ALL parts of the country. Even Iowa had movie theatres, newspapers, and popular books and records back in the day. ;-) Beatniks and hippies, too! Though I'm half-New Yorker, so I've always been lucky to get in on the hotline from the REAL Center of the Universe!!! ;-) ;-) ;-)
Hi Laurie, I hope you are feeling better today.
As an idiot young teenager in the Sixties I thought the world revolved around my radio station, KRLA. I thought that was the source of everything cool in life. I knew my favorite musicians came other parts of our country (Motown) and another country altogether but it just didn't compute.
I would love to be a New Yorker. Both my sons live in Manhattan. One lives at the top and one lives at the bottom. But, the cold... I cannot take temperatures below 50 degrees F.
I apartment/dog sit every August, which is my favorite month on the East Coast. My son and his wife take the month to travel in Europe, where she is from. I love the humidity. The hotter the better.
Laurie, In follow-up to my thoughts re the use of offensive words:
I have had my head bitten off for saying Latino rather than Hispanic and for saying Hispanic rather than Latino. My Hispanic/Latino friends tell me it is the same for them.
I have had my head bitten off for saying Black rather than African-American and vice-versa.
I understand the sensitivities.
Laurie, You are a Sweetheart!
I might as well say right now and get it over with that I have had very traumatic experiences with men. The Big Three all happened to me:
1. my father (I won't go into details)
2. my first sexual experience: Date rape. I cried and begged him to stop but he got angry and told me I was "ruining it" for him.
3. more than one boss who thought he could put his hands on me.
I have as much reason as any woman to think men are monsters. But I don't. I think the men who hurt me are the monsters.
OK... that is my TMI for the day.
Time to turn on the music and immerse myself into my fantasy world with Alvin Lee.
EDIT: I neglected to say that my mother hurt me more than all the rest combined. I have a fear of both men and women, but I try to rise above it. I am open and loving but very, very, very careful.