Dale, I don't want to get into it point for point with you - you're entitled to your opinion - but let's just say I agree with Laurie. As for the ACA, though, as a former medical center administrator who voted for Obama mostly because he promised a Healthcare bill, I have read it - and aside from having to give in on the point of payment for abortions, it not only doesn't hurt women, it offers them some very important preventive care and medications - hence the fight now about contraception.
I do have a question for you, though, as you so fiercely think this President has failed us. Just who do you think could do any better? Not who will you vote for, who could do better?
And by the way, I don't classify myself as a Democrat, but in recent years, I do classify myself as "not a Republican"
Toni, as you know I'm Independent & split my vote.
I cannot see Moe, Larry, Curly or Shemp
as an answer.
I'll have to wait till November, so far no one is on a ballot except Barack Obama.
I'm amazed you read 2,000+ pages of this health care plan.
DLM, just for the record, I have respect for the fact that you are opposing Obama on policies rather than some of the personal crap and conspiracy theories I hear. A friend actually just sent me an email telling me to be careful because Obama removed the American flag from the press room and put in "middle eastern drapes with secret Arabic messages" Sheesh!
And yeah, I did read all 2000 pages - took several days and I didn't understand it all, not by any means. But I've also read analyses (pro and con) and get policy statements from my insurer explaining different parts of the bill as they are implemented. I'm kind of a wonk when it comes to healthcare access.
"You people"? Who people, Dale? Not sure whom you're lumping me in with, but I'm an independent-minded critter, and among my life's personae is a scholarly bluestocking as well as a fun-loving bacchante, so I have long been in the habit of critical thinking. I just plain like Obama, and I don't wanna ditch him for his mistakes. All things in this election considered, I think his potential and positives outweigh any negatives. Also, I'm not comfortable with serious concerns about women's freedom in our own bodies being characterized as "beatching"...perhaps you don't mean to come off as disrespectful and dismissive to me and other women when you choose such wording, BUT... Too many men still seem to think of women's health and freedom issues as peripheral, "other", or less than urgent and compelling. You seem to be not merely in disagreement about Obama, but actually rather angry that anyone likes him. Not sure why he needs to be the first with certain actions or ideas in order for them to be valid. Never said you're a Republican... just wondered if you were supporting one, or whatever other party's candidate, this November. Hey, Roseanne is running... ;-)
Laurie, i beg to differ.
You are the one that blasts anyone who doesn't agree with you and snuggle up to them when they do.
you always quote someone's one or two words implying they're related to you.
not only my posts.
you want to lump yourself into "you people", that's your paranonia.
hey I'm all for womwn's rights..................I was around during ERA.
Now they are being considered for front line duty in the military, I donot agree.
If you read ALL MY WORDS im my post, I'm not angry at anyone who appreciates Obama, I see similarities and point them out.
did you read anywhere that I did not like him or want him to fail?
Yup, I read your whole post. I didn't memorize it, but what's your concern? He inherited what? Czars he appointed? Not sure what points you're trying to make with the below, except that my complete question in #2 was to ask what he's delegating that you'd have him doing differently. Please clarify.
you want a personal debate, let's take it to a neutral site, your choice, this isn't the place...
as for now I'm gonna sit beneath a rainbow & write poetry.
Gee whiz, Dale. I said you *seem* angry about Obama. That was my *impression* from some of your tone, and from seeming to read between the lines in some of your content, such as your listing examples of Obama's alleged lack of originality of vision or action, when nobody here was claiming him to be original in those things. Why do you have to have *said* you're angry about him for me to gain the impression you might be in some way? It was just a comment, not a personal putdown! Maybe what I'm picking up on is simply that you may feel defensive on some level about criticizing Obama here. It was an idea, and I don't pretend to know for sure. I was frank and sometimes provocative in my forthrightness, as usual, but I didn't and *don't* stoop to hyperbole and overt personal insult on the board, as you've just done in my direction. Wow. Why so hostile? But leaving that issue aside for the moment, hey, you have a right to be angry at Obama if you want to, but if you're *not* angry at him, or with those who defend him, why not just say so reasonably, instead of so, well, angrily? You're only bolstering my original impression! And *I* beg to differ, buddy, but to reply to your very personal insults, I most certainly *don't* "blast" anyone who disagrees with me, or "snuggle up to" them, or to ANYBODY, when they agree. That's incredibly and deeply offensive, and it's false. I love playful banter as well as vigorous discussion and debate, but hyperbolic putdowns like yours should *not* be a part of them. There's a definite line between plain speech and overt insult, and you've just crossed it. I do *not* indulge in "paranoia", here or anywhere. Nor do I "always quote someone's one or two words implying they're related" to me! Say what?? Where do you get that? I think you are seriously misreading, misunderstanding, or misremembering some things. *You're* the one doing the blasting, dude. Why? I thought we were previously on amicable enough terms. I post here for enjoyment and to get my mind off some griefs and worries that are often a knife in my heart. I don't need to be personally attacked here by someone signing himself "Peace".
No, I didn't want a personal debate, Dale. *You* are the one who took it there, expressing obvious hostility and offending me deeply-- *you* take responsibility for it. Don't go projecting it onto me! As for the "you people" post, it was clearly in response to me, sequentially in the thread, and by the rest of its content, though you're now trying to claim it wasn't, and that I "always" make stuff about me from people's quotes that isn't. Balderdash. No thanks to the "neutral" venue, either. You've got a nerve telling *me* this isn't the place!! You made it the place! Any other time I'd love to debate the women-in-the-infantry issue with you, but I'm going to sign off, not subject my semi-dormant Welsh temper to any further severe and uncalled-for trials here, and go back to reading Kelly DeVries' *Joan of Arc: A Military Leader*. Standard-bearing mascot and "saint" be d*mned. She was a real soldier, a general, and a true military strategist, though she never made it out of her teens.
Laurie, what Dale does't realize is that comparing the Prez. And fmr. Prez. Carter, is like comparing Carter and poppy ( Read my lips..) Bush. Arguing politics or religion is death to a friendship. Don't fall for it you two!
Okay, I can't help myself.
Inherited: On the day Barack Obama took office, over 4 million jobs had been lost and the unemployment rate had risen to 7.8%. Banks were near collapse. The auto industry was in decline and facing massive layoffs. Housing prices had dropped over 30% nationally and the stock market was down more than 25%. 4 million more jobs were lost before implementation of the Recovery Act.
Since then, we have added jobs in every month for 23 months with a total gain of 3.7 million private sector jobs. Banks are solvent. The auto industry is profitable. Housing prices have basically stabilized and even increased minimally is some markets. The stock market is up 62%.
Czars, otherwise less ominously known as advisers: Bush had 33; Obama has 38. Would you want a President without adviser when times are this tough?
No "fights" just discussion. The country has a long way to go and we should make decisions based on facts. Just thought I'd share a few.
I was going to take a vacation from the board, at least for a day or two, but of course, despite waking up with a bad headache, I was curious to see what may have been written in this thread since I last posted. I appreciate your good intentions, Dave, but I find I can't resist commenting that it wasn't arguing politics that caused the problem here last night. It was the point at which Dale let loose with overt and seemingly hostile personal insult-- that I've allegedly been "blasting" people on the board and then "snuggling up" to them when they agree with me, that I "always" misquote them, making their comments about me when they're not, indulging in "paranoia", etc.-- all of which was so startling and hurtful that I couldn't help but defend myself. NONE of that was fated to be simply because we were talking politics! His attacking me personally among friends in a public forum just because I was debating Obama with him more stringently or successfully than he was apparently comfortable with is not OK with me, and if I can't say so in reply, then to Hel with it all. It was wrong of him, deeply offensive to me, and it just wasn't in me to back down. I wanted him and everyone who was reading to know exactly what I thought of it, though I sought to word myself reasonably, if angrily and with characteristic forthrightness. I don't believe in sweeping things under a rug. Nothing gets learned that way. This kind of sorting-out process needs to happen after something like this, in my view, or the whole thing was in vain. Dale's insults were extreme, unwarranted, and I think an apology is an order.
It wasn't just a "fight", Toni, in which all factors are equal. It was a political debate in which Dale suddenly attacked me personally, I was horribly caught off guard, and then followed human impulse and stoutly defended myself. Pardon my pride, but who wants to be put down like that in a public forum? Politics had nothing to do with it. Sorry if my feelings about this are inconvenient to anyone, but I'm human, and I've sunk enough well-intentioned time into this board that I think they should matter somehow, or I don't belong here. I'm usually a pretty tough cookie, but I've got a lot on my plate right now in a heartbreaking stress-fest with a relative I'm worried sick about. My head is in a vise at the moment. Guess I'll sign off.
OK, the indignant Co-Queen of Cyber-Alvinland has calmed down now. The diva din has subsided. The palace walls are no longer shaking, and the cosmic chandeliers have even stopped shimmying. I felt stung, and I squawked about it some. I'm still not happy about Dale's remarks, and I don't ever tolerate that style of comment, but I feel I've made that abundantly clear. Life's too short to hang onto an upset, in any case, and I don't want the resta yez to be bummed by it. Yesterday's skull-crusher is finally fizzling, too, praise the Lady. We had another gorgeous snow here, which was very welcome to me, but the barometric pressure changes sometimes wreak havoc with my neck arthritis. I'll live. Anyway, thanks for posting that info, Toni. I've always thought it a good thing for a president (or a queen) to have plenty of advisors, as long as they're not just automatic yes-people. The more viewpoints, info, and expertise to hash out, the better, say I. Yes, I'm an opinionated soul, folks. Not only do I come from a family of stalwart discussers and debaters with strong academic backgrounds (for example, my dad taught high school Debate, along with English and other subjects), but I worked for years on a college campus, where vigorous exchange of ideas is par for the course, and not taken as a personal "blast". I always, always respect the right of someone to have other opinions. I'm an enthusiastic practitioner of what I call the Grand Old Art of Thought Provocation, and I love it when others are too. How boring life would be if we all agreed about everything all the time!!
Laurie, I admire your attitude. I always take things far too personally. I feel your pain re the neck arthritis. I recently obtained a tens unit and one of those over-the-door traction devices which help immensely , although I doubt they can help with the temperature changes.
Thanks, Robin. :-) I've gotten tens therapy at the chiropractor's, but maybe I should get one of those traction thingies to have at home. Sounds like we're close in age-- I just turned 60 on the 6th. Alvin's music makes me feel like I'm 17 again, too! 1969 "was a very good year", to quote the Sinatra song... ;-)
Used to be a hothead, but the older I get, the more "comfortably numb" I become. A bit worrying in a way, because I can even laugh at stupid politicians these days and I don't even try to argue with the wife anymore. I mean, she's won every argument for 35 years, so why bother..
PS, Swedes used to go to Denmark because they had beer with more alcohol in it. Today people go to Germany or Poland for cheaper price. I don't go anywhere, because pure water is the cheapest and healthiest drink of them all.
Happy Birthday Laurie.
I will be 60 in April. I look forward to it. My youngest son is getting married two days after my birthday. I will be spending my b-day alone with my two sons walking around Manhattan, which is my favorite thing to do there.
I spent over $2,000 at the chiro getting tens treatments at $50 per 15-minute treatment. It helped a lot, but I stopped because that is a lot of money. You can imagine how upset I was to find that a very good quality home unit can be purchased online for about $30 or $40. You may need a prescription, I am not sure. But, now whenever I feel a flare-up coming on, I zap myself with the tens unit and it never develops. I was almost in despair and now I am happy as a lark.
As for Alvin and his music.... this morning I noticed that I have the smile of Mona Lisa on my face at all times. It feels so good to have his music and his face and his voice running through me like a river, every waking moment.
It is good to know that I am not alone in cherishing those juicy feelings of young love (and other things ). I wonder if men can really know just how powerful Alvin's attraction is for women.