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Index > General Discussion > Alvin Lee Message & Discussion Board > Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history
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Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Dave is an idiot. I'm sorry, really, I do try to ignore him and I hate having to insult him - but the man is just a jealous, childish, mean spirited idiot. (I just read his post)

Luckily, Alvin's true fans know not to read or listen to anything Dave has to say about Alvin Lee - they know he will find a way to turn any positive into a negative. As Dave truly hates to see Alvin receive any positive recognition, of course he would be steaming at this wonderful tribute from Gibson.

Oh, and for the record, these first 35 guitars are lovingly custom made - when the guitar goes into regular production, it will be cheaper.

Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Thank you Pieter for the excellent history of Big Red.

Just for the record, no one has advertised the replica Big Red as a replica of the way the guitar looked at Woodstock. Except dumb Dave.

Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Hello Peter.
As you probbely know $ 4600.00 for the Hand made custom replica of Alvin`s Big Red ,is here in Europa "cheap" for a Es 335 . The Normal price in the shops for an custom normal reissue is about 44000.00 kroner divide in 6.5 is about $ 6750.00 dollars. A lot of money $ 4600. dollars but compare to the shops prices in europa not expensive.
i am getting realy @ crasy out here in Norway ( 3 weeks of waiting and even not shure if i been selected from the list to be allouwd to buy this treasure!!!! i must have one!!!!!!
And to Dave better count to 10.000 before you post an insulting inlay about Alvin or his guitar. Maby that will help????.
But i pardon you you silly man. You can probbely not help it anyway. too much sugar or.....

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Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Yes agreed. Thanks Toni. Soon can we expect an new inlay about that the Guitar of PinochchiJoe is stated as one and onley real replica.

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Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Hah, hah - very good Pieter. I'm sure if there was a replica Pinocchio Joe guitar it would sell much faster than a lovingly reproduced replica of one of our generation's most recognizable and beloved guitars. NOT!

Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

I don't know who Dave is so I can't comment on whether or not he's dumb but I do know the Gibson folks are not saying the replica is exactly as it was at Woodstock. The Gibson website just says "the “Peace” signs that fans of this blues-rocker will remember from the film Woodstock" I think that's exactly accurate. There are no other references to Woostock at all other than to say people will remember Alvin playing Big Red at Woodstock. Which they sure as hell do. I think they did the exact right thing in replicating the guitar as it is today, obviously Alvin Lee considers the changes since the Woodstock days to be improvements.

I got to see the guitar at the NAMM show and its really a beauty (I read that another fan got to play it, I wasn't that lucky). I have so little doubt that its worth $4500 that I already have my name on the list to get one.

Rock On,
Les Coffman

Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Saw that post from Duh-Dave. Toni, you nailed it...he just has an issue with anything positive coming out about Alvin...it is so transparent....yet he is so dense, he does not see what an a*s he makes of himself every time he spews his old tired rhetoric.

Peiter, briliant post on the history of Big Red....

Wish I had an extra 4k laying around, what a deal.

Maybe the Production Model...

Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Thanks Pieter- I've learned a lot from that. However, you did ask if anyone had any further comments, and I've got a few.

Firstly, Alvin has always referred to it as a 1958 model, and you've written 1958/9. The truth is that it's a 1959. The 335 first came out in 1958 - but the cherry red finish was not issued until 1959. Meaning no disrespect to Alvin, the people who are most likely to know are Gibson themselves, and I notice that they've referred to this new replica guitar as a "1959" model, quite possibly after having Alvin's in themselves to check out every aspect of it before producing the replica.

You're right that the Fender single coil pickup was added quite early in TYA's career. I would say 1967, with 1968 as the absolute latest. Strangely though, that extra volume control knob did not appear until about five years later, i.e. 1972, at the earliest.

Did you make a typo on the date that the red and black "peace" sign (or the "ban the bomb" sign, as we say in the UK)appeared? You've written something about 1976 - but it was clearly there at Woodstock - 1969.

Yes, I've read about the "banging it on the ceiling a the Marquee" story too. Trouble with that tale is that there is no record of TYA playing at the Marquee in the time frame in question (1970, 1971 or so). Not that that is surprising, as they had moved well beyond the club stage by then. So that story has always puzzled me a bit.

You said the Bigsby tremelo came off in the early '70s. You might be right, but the date is early 1970, at the very latest. Personally, I think it was off by late 1969.

Then there is the 1970 and 1971 Gibson 345 saga. (Now owned by Herb.)Started off straight - then got progressively more stickered - including a "peace" sign on the upper horn. Then - oblivion.

And what was that other early '70s cherry red Gibson 335 episode about? This was one has no "peace" sign on the upper horn, and a "Ten Years After" sticker on the lower horn. Trapeze tailpiece and block marker inlays. If you ever see Alvin pictured wearing his purple outfit with the stars on the shoulders, then he's playing this guitar. It's not Big Red for - as someone needs to mention, but I don't think Gibson will be copying - the most distinctive sign of Big Red is the tornado-shaped scratch directly above the upper f-hole, which this particular cherry red 335 doesn't have.

So, there's more mileage in the Big Red story yet...

Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Hello Rod ? ( RS).
Thank you for the comment always nice to share toughts.
It is tru Alvin always refered about the Big red was a 58 model .I also saw that the Gibson ad refered to a model 1959 ( they probbely chequed it again at the factory against the serial nr )that is why i wrote 58/59.to keep both sides as option ( very diplomatic )

Yes the fender single coil was probbely added to the guitar mid 60ties i mean than arround 1965.66.67.

I made ofcourse a wrong typo about that Alvin got the sticker ( nu nukes ) at the Fillmore West in San Fransisco. in 1976 it is 1967 ofcourse is is a writing mistake sorry i ment 67 not 76.

Yest that PURPLE outfit with the stars on the sholders,is acctually red with black stars on the sholders i know i have seen it opclose , even touched it......this was the outfit i liked best on Alvin. As i recall he has a nother similar outfit yes maby that is purple/white sholders and black stars on it. I wonder where that is??????.....

I have investigate that one ...

Yest there is no record about T.Y.A that they have playd at the Marquee. that period that Alvin broke the nechk of by banging it in to the low ceeling . I got these facts from Alvin Himself in an Interview he did in 1987 with GUITARIST magazin Volume 3 Number 11 side 38 Alvin says " But when i broke the neck at the Marquee,owing it to the ceiling being so low. I send it back to Gibson for repair".......
RS a lot of concerst were never recorded. I give 3 Examples of concerts i have attended ,wich never er no record from . Amsterdam 2 oktober 1971. Amsterdam 26 Jan 1972 Rotterdam 24 march 1972. You never find these recorded in no dates but i still have the tickets .

I wrote the bigsby came of in the beginning of the 70ties You are probbebly right .Alvin played at the fillmore in 1970 without the bigsby but in febrary. Than he remouved the Bigsby between 17 august 1969 and febr 1970. But late 1969 ( You wrote), is almost the same as beginning 1970.

The other Gibsons Es 335 tc with the trapeze stoptail and TEAS sticer under the Trapeze . and STP and Ten Years After Watt Tour sticker sticker ,i am working
on that story for later.
The Gibson Es 345 The I.O.W.guitar ,ihave not so much info about that, exept that regrettebly Herb is in possesion of it. I SHOULD be in Toni`s possesion. At a real fan`s home.

Love and Peace.
Pieter Kentrop

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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Hi Pieter,

You should have been in the UK a couple of months ago. There was an hour long serious documentary about Ronnie Wood - I know he's one of your favourites.

About the Big Red at The Marquee story. I too have read Alvin's interview in Guitarist (April 1987) where he says he broke the neck on the low ceiling at The Marquee. (In fact, I sent it over to Toni several years ago and she reprinted it in Rock On.) I've got slight doubts about that story though. One is for the reason I have already given, namely that (although you are correct that many gigs are still unrecorded) TYA weren't playing gigs at that sort of venue at the time in question. A second reason is that it is coincidentally close to a famous Pete Townshend story. When asked why The Who used to smash their equipment up in the '60s Pete says that one night they were playing in The Marquee. He swung his guitar up into the ceiling and the neck broke. He got so angry that he smashed the rest of it up. The crowd went apesh ... er, wild - and so equipment-smashing became part of the act after that. So you see what I mean.

Toni has said - and I've heard Alvin say it too - that his memory is a bit unreliable about some aspects of the old days. For instance, I have an interview where he is asked about the origins of "I'm Going Home". His answer was that at the gig when Undead was recorded they'd run out of material - so he just made IGH up there and then ... on the spot. Apart from wondering how the other three telepathically managed to play along quite so well, there is also the worrying factor that Toni's gigography reports IGH being played at gigs much earlier in 1968 than that.

So - nothing against Alvin - but I think that ALL rock stars' stories of their exploits and history from so long ago need a little independent verifiaction - and if that isn't possible, consume them with a pinch of the proverbial sodium chloride.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Granted. Hey, it the 60s....at least he remembers some of it!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

RS.
Yeah Ronnie Wood is a funny sympathic Happy Dawn Good guitarplayer He fits best IN the Stones And with Rod Steward. I do not agree with Ronnie Solo. I do not like Keith Solo eighter. But Mick is great Solo. Maby somebody taped the documentary i can buy it from.
But ALVIN LEE IS MY IDOL !!!!

Hope to meet you sometimes as well RS. You are sitting in with a lot of knowledge. I had such a great time meeting ,Rosie,Kim,Alan,Jari,Jerry,Ian during the Alvin Lee UK tour. Were were YOU?
Looking forward to USA as well one time Swimming in Toni`s pool.

About the Marquee... I would certainly remember if i was Alvin where i broke my Gibson. Does the Marquee have a low ceiling ???
L&P and Keep On Tokin` (like Peter Tosh once said).
Pieter kentrop

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Pieter - I went to one of last year's UK gigs, the one at Dartford. As you may well be aware, that's Mick and Keith's home town, as it happens. As kids, they lived just around the corner from each other - I know the two houses in question - and went to the same primary school. Mick's dad wrote a best-selling book on basketball and so, in the early '50s, the Jaggers moved to an expensive, brand new, four-bedroomed house in the nearby village of Wilmington. They named the house "Newlands". (Call me a saddo, but when we moved into our own brand new, four-bedroomed house I gave it the same name.) Keith's home was hit (not directly) by a German V2 flying bomb at the end of the second world war. Neighbours caught the brunt of it, and some were killed. When Keith tells the story he gives the impression that the Richards (him - only child - Bert and Doris) were there at the time. In fact, they were staying in Mansfield, where his dad was being treated at an orthopaedic hospital for war injuries. Interestingly, enough, less than a decade later, this would be the very same hospital where local Mansfield lad Leo Lyons would be treated for his polio. On returning to Dartford, the Richards were re-housed in a council house (US translation: housing project)- and this was when he and Mick lost touch.

Maybe Alvin's Marquee tale is true. You're right - he should know. But it's fun tracing all the evidence and clues and seeing what does and doesn't stack up. I look forward to learnig from you about that other mystery early '70s cherry red 335. One last comment about Big Red though: I wonder if the guy who sold it to Alvin ever knew what became of it? Imagine going along to his local Nottingham cinema in 1970 and seeing his old guitar up there on the silver screen, about ten times its normal size, in "Woodstock".

Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Rod....
Nice to see/read/hear your stories of yester-year.
You may consider,oh I don't know...teaching English, or something along those lines as you certainly have a way with the mighty pen...or pencil...or keys...or...or...ok I am done....

Cheers!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

I've recently been in touch with an old friend of Alvin's from Nottingham and he has given me the name of the original Big Red owner (or at least, as he remembers it). I've thought it might be fun to try to track him down and tell him about the half million dollar offer Alvin received for it - but that seems a bit cruel, no?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Great story.
I wisch i was in dartford too. I visited Edit Grove where Brain Mick and Keith lived in rediciolous houshold as Charlie Watts stated.

I i was the guy who sold Alvin the Big Red and see it on the screen in the cinema ( woodstock ) ,i think i would tuched and mighty proud.

About the "replacement " Es 335 Trapeze tailpiece ,( you can see it on the cover of R&R Music T.T.World),Alvin used wile the Big Red was in for repair. I wonder who bought it .Herb told me ( us on the other board ) that it was sold on a auction for $ 14000.00 Dollars. With the stickers on it.
Can the one who bought it please step foreward.

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Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

I just wanted to say how proud I am to be an Alvin Lee fan. I graduated from Lynbrook High School in San Jose, CA. in 1980 and there were only about 2 or 3 fans of his in the entire school. Now to see that Gibson has made a replica of his guitar fills me with a sense of satisfaction.

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Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Gerard.....small world....
I graduated from Fremont High in 83....my daughter graduated from Lynbrook last year, with another graduating this year from Lynbrook.

Alvin Rocks!

Re:1958/59. 335

The true history of the first 1958 Gibson cherry 335 with Bigsby is it was finished Dec 15. 1958, more than a year before it was offered as an option color.
It came factory wired in stereo.
It's in a private collection.

The s# is: A28800 and came with a California Girl case made by Stone Case Co.

DLM

dlmes335  
Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

My neice is graduating from Lynbrook this year: Christine Kehoe.

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Re: Rachel Jefferson

WTF!! is this ,Rowe??
Dark side in a uproar??

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1959 BIG RED Gibson es 335

I believe there was a sticker on the old dot neck headstock.

Peace,
DLM

Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

OK EVERYBODY I SAW AN INTERVIEW WITH ALVIN LEE AND THE GUY ASKED HIM ABOUT THE IMFAMOUS PEACE STICKER ON THE UPPER HORN. AND ALVIN SAID A CAT AT WOODSTOCK HANDED IT TO HIM JUST BEFORE HE WENT ON STAGE ,,AND IN ALVINS OWN WORDS I SLAPPED IT ON. ON A PERSONAL NOTE I SAT ON STAGE IN FRONT OF A SPEAKER BANK AT THE SYNDROME IN CHICAGO IN 1970 AND WATCHED HIS WHOLE SHOW AT TIMES HE LOOKED OVER AT ME AS HE WAS WAILING AWAY RIP ALVIN LEE THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE BECAUSE OF YOU

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Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Great stories about Big Red, Pieter, RS, Toni - thanks! And here's what Alvin himself said about it (hope you forgive me Toni, it's from http://alvinlee.com/equipment.html)

Working on the 335 electronics is a bit like keyhole surgery. I used to fasten guitar strings to the pots, toggle switch and jack socket before dropping them into the body and pulling them out of the F holes. That way, there is a good chance of getting them back in place again later. Loads of fun when one of them falls of!!!!!!

Darn, how much I miss our old friend and his great sense of humour already..

Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

Hey, just so you know, I'm not the dumb Dave Toni refers to. What you guys needed to have experienced, was to actually hold & play Big Red. I got to for about 10 min. W/Alvin. He went and got his backup guitar, saying he couldn't play mine! (I have very low action on my 335 & very light strings. 008 set.). It took all I had, & this was backstage at a gig in Az., I had been playing 6 days a week, & I was in good playing shape, it took all I had to bend his strings! Also, the action was very high! He said "how do you play this thing?" referring to my 66 335, I said, "back at ya!" about his 335! The guitar (in 82) was in very good shape, it had some battle scars, but was very well-made and sturdy. The finish on the body seemed rough, due to the stickers. One of our roadies took a picture of me playing Big Red, but, as time goes on, I can't find the picture. One other thing: I first met Alvin at the Tower records in Hollywood in '78. Rocket Fuel was just out, and he and Tom, and Mick came for a autograph session. That's where he drew a schematic on my pad of paper, on how to wire a start pickup with a separate vol control to the back humbucker. He was a little "happy" at the time, but treated everyone with respect. I said to him "These things are a pain in the ass, right?" . He just smiled and shrugged. So 4 yrs later, when we met backstage where we opened for him, he was the same guy!! He asked if we had met before, I said yeah, but it was at a record store. He remembered the schematic, and old me the guy who did my mods on my 335 "did a excellent job". Just to recap, he was the same guy both times! I think Pieter got to play Big Red, maybe I'm wrong.
Anyway, I'm not the dumb Dave Toni refers to. (I hope!)






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Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

No, my friend, you are not Dumb Dave. You are Sweet Dave.

Re: Re: Re: The Alvin Lee BIG RED Gibson es 335 true history

I saw Alvin break the guitar. It was indeed at The Marquee but I can't remember exactly when. I remember, at the end of the show, Alvin threw it over the back of the Marshalls and saw a roadie pick it up afterwards with the neck snapped off. Really didn't notice Alvin bang it on the ceiling, either then or at all the other gigs they did there. Don't recall the ceiling being particularly low at The Marquee.