"I've thought about us for a long, long while....."

Okay, nevermind that...

Since I'm the newbie here, I thought it best that I do some sort of introduction...since I'm about to post some rather outrageous things to you all (although some of you, obviously, won't be surprised....at all).

I'm buzzing here and not running for office, so I thought a free form format would work best for moi.

These are the things that most people know me by and identify me with:

Here goes...

* I am a HARDCORE Republican. As in card-carrying, working, SUSTAINING, member. While you people were giving thousands of dollars to JZ Knight, I was busy giving $1200.00 per year to George W. Bush. Don't Tread On Me. I won, you lost....bin Laden lives in a cave now and hundreds of thousands of formerly and now very dead young moslem boys are waiting for virgins to be re-cycled in heaven.....so deal with it. Put that in your Red Guard pipe and smoke it....

* I am a former school member, started the teachings in 1988, and left the school after my first and only event in 1998.

* I am a decorated USN veteran who trained with the USN SEAL's (Team Two) and then beat them 12-6 in their own football league (boy, that sure ****** them off!), and with a bunch of fat-boy losers too...I have also testified before a Congressional Investigation about subjects that I'm not sure any of you have clearance to know about...and about a historical incident that few seem to care about, know about, or have the knowledge base to place in any sort of relevant coherence (sorry if this is coming off as arrogant...but it is what it is.)

* My father personally detonated 85-87% of the nukes the USA tested between the years 1967-1986. He worked next to Area 51. I've been to Area 51. I've talked personally to Bob Lazar. You guys have so much BS going on in your silly brains it's not funny. .....Or maybe it IS funny....

* I am a published author who has sold hundreds of copies in Yelm and surrounding areas and thousands of copies worldwide...and then was cheated out of any profit by both JZ Knight AND the publisher, Val Valerian of Leading Edge Publications.

* My publisher was RSE affilliated and both the publisher and RSE denied my EXISTENCE, and then fraudulently collected all profits due to me by legal contract and American law.

* I confronted JZ Knight in her own chatroom and website when she set it up and subsequently shut it down by simply registering "JK_aka_Zebra" on every ISP known to mankind at the time and then emailing her stupid students for the passwords. Since that time she has been regulated to her obscure corner of the Internet...and that is all.

* I don't play fair or nice. I play to win. Why else bother playing?

There's a ton more I could post....but it's late.

Ok Navy... you have my attention... Smile.

You are my kinda of guy. I love it when you are so SO up front and in our face.

I think this is what has been missing from many of the la la land organizations.

To be socially correct or spiritually correct, you must PERFORM accoring to the RULES of MEN.. and not be tooo honest... becuase they might not like you.

Your post is refreshing.

Please tell us more... I will listen.

Also, I am a card caring Republician, even though I feel George W has failed to get the real message out... and TELL the people.... I would NEVER go to democrat.

The safety of our nation needs to be in the hands of those who can STAND UP and LEAD and make the hard choices.

and YES you are so right about the play ground of this focus... and Aria 51 has secrets that would AWAKEN many IMMEDITATLY if they KNEW.... but it would also most like blow the psychi.

Post more... we will listen.

If our psyche hasn't been blown by what we've already experienced at RSE, along with all the "strange and unusual" occurrences within life, I think we can handle it. BRING IT ON! I want TRUTH. (I, too, testified at congressional hearings-I can take the heat)

Lavendar;

Thank you, and I will do that. There is much about the "ranch" I can tell people, and I have no fear from JZ or her little cut-out munchkin people. I actually enjoy taunting them and her. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside....ya know. ;-)

I beat portions of the US Navy and had to face down Congress thirty years ago. JZ and her band of merry little manics doesn't impress me much....at all. She's a featherweight in the real world.

I will add this though. When I was at the "school", I performed all of the disciplines...and with rather exemplary and startling results....at least to the wanna-be "christs" walking around blindfolded in manure that is.

For this I was kicked out of the school and literally escorted off the property at gunpoint. 9mm Glock if memory serves correctly (and it does).

The reason: "We don't know how to handle you, Tyger."

That's what that POS Vicki told me. While "Sir" Robert and the rest of the gimps gazed on all teary eyed with their fake remorse. It was sickening and absurd....

Some enlightenment, eh?

G2G;

I'm new to this board and have only recently met David, but I will endeavor to share my experiences and tell my story to the rest of you guys.

It's all about the truth. You either can handle it.....or you can't. It's that simple.

WOW Tell us more! I have never posted here. I only read but you have my attention Tyger!

This is very interresting Tyger ! I can surely handle the truth, even when it hurts, I'm a bit used to it.

I do hope that you tell us more. And I hope that if someone else has something as hard-hitting to tell, do so ! These things must be told.

I will gladly, (and free of charge too) tell you all that I know about RSE, Judith Knight, and her sham-school of "enlightenment".

But be patient and do give me some time....

;-)

Just take all the time (line) you need...

Just like "making known the unknown"...

Easy TIGER !!!!!!!!!

Your Todd Rundgren CIA Electronic Utopia is showing.

I too gave a little (very little) money to Uncle Dick and GEORGE that was inscribed with a little artwork of my very own. (I wonder why JFK JR. called his magazine GEORGE?)

The question I have always had about Judi is about her connection to "The Son Of The King Of Torts" "Flea Baily"?

Some have said that he is the Handler.

yeh, fleas involvement with jz has always perked my interest considering that he attempted to insert himself in Noriegas trial, and the deal he did time on, his activities in holding millions in stock. and in the end after having been fined 4-5 million dollars, the same judge if I remember correctly reversed that ruling...he has certainly had strange bedfellows since the P. H. trial...or perhaps a cut out?

In re to Tyger - We (Christianity/Judaism/Muslims) handled the old testament vengeful and wrathful "god" of "all creation. The same "god" who supposedly ordered a man to kill his own son, a vengeful, jealous and wrathful god. We believed if we did not "obey" in all ways, we would burn for all eternity in hellfire. Then we were told Jesus came to "save" us - and there are so many different versions of this! One, listen to the beautiful teachings which reflect a man who was radical in his time, thriving for change - encouraging change. "Love your neighbor" instead of "kill them-kill them all-men-women-children as per Old Testament. But some claimed Jesus "saved" us simply by "dying" on the cross. Others say it is only through "HIS" blood we are saved. My belief, he's an incarnation of the same essence through eons, trying to reach the minds and hearts of those who have been so mislead and lied to.

Then, we hear of aliens and UFOS, etc. Well, how the heck can we believe we are the only ones in the ENTIRE of creation - at least in this dimension? (I'm not going further into the UFO stuff; I've never seen one (unless the liquid that fell upon my head from our tree wasn't really bird-doo!) But we're told very steadfastly that there was no "Roswell" incident, etc. etc. etc. Why?

Were people of this earth not "lied" to, to begin with, then none of this would be alarming. It would be "our" truth. It might be "our" truth even though we're unaware of it, for with or without support, Truth still stands. It's got legs.

Is the issue of power that important, when we all have our own power to believe or not to believe, to act, to think, to be civil or barbaric, etc.?

So why have we ALWAYS been lied to? Is the Truth worse than what we've already experienced? I certainly don't want to be in "the Matrix." Take me to Zion, where I can either have my freedom or fight for it!

G2G;

I'll address the UFO issue. There are several concrete and valid reasons that the various governments of the world are not forthright with their citizenry regarding them.

1) You can thank old Orson Welles for a large part of this. His radio show really put the whammy on the brains in Washington, London, etc. They got to WATCH people freakout and riot.

2) This is more along the lines of simple common sense. Humans have always been at the top of the ladder here on Earth. Eventually, we organized what we now call "governments" to protect us from other groups of people while we went about our daily business and lives. That is the basis of the entire reason for even having a government. Protection. If the government can't protect you, then why bother with it?

Sooooo, obviously, having to admit that a superior race and culture to ours is visiting any **** time they choose, and any **** where they choose, and there is not a single **** thing YOUR government can do about it....that would reduce the average person's faith in the government, or any structure like it....to zero. The likely scenario from that is total anarchy. Not acceptable and why the "alien" issue has been covered up since day one.

Sounds more like Men In Black than War of the Worlds..Aliens don't want to come out of the closet, they want to remain incognito, lol.
Started reading stuff by Zecharia Sitchin, bout how the ancient Gods were really aliens...now I find out it was recommended reading at the ranch...
Anyway, aliens or no aliens, they don't lend themselves to thoughts of spiritual development, from my point of view...just politics, power and greed, that's what I think of when I think of 'aliens'.

By all accounts and evidence, or what is accepted as "evidence"...UFO's or whatever they represent have minor-league interest or interaction with us. Probably like going to the zoo for them.

Now on the other hand, there was that decidely Star Wars looking girl at the Safeway the other day.....I may stand corrected.

u mean, Laya Organic? (lol)
And, don't ginsengs sort of look like Yoda?
What I am atuning to is inapropriate, nervous reactions, like, I told one man he had wings (he had an airforce pin on) and he started and looked guilty!! That sort of thing...

I cannot think of anything more remotely dull than a member of a highly advanced technology and culture have to imitate....a human being. It would be like you or I being forced to wear a chimpanzee suit all day and nite and eat bananas for eternity. It'd drive you insane and serve no purpose.

All kidding aside, that sounds to me like a fitting analogy, (in my individual belief system, which no one need share) for the boundlessness that is our spirit, trapped in these body contraptions, here on earth...it is very much like having to wear a monkey suit. But, the whole concept of aliens is, while mildly amusing, pretty irrelevant to me in my daily life. And I think you are correct, they, assuming they exist, wouldn't really spare us and our measly planet much thought.

I imagine that we may have more than a passing interest to the Alien Archeologist. Or the Alien Exo-Biology Professor. We might even now and again get a shot done by an Alien Galactic Geographic photographer.

But to your average Mom & Pop alien? They probably give us as much thought as we give a pack of howler monkies in the jungle.

Obviously, speaking to howler monkies is out of the question. ;-)

There is an amusing popular song which begins "you and me baby, we ain't nothing but mammals...."...very funny video with this, a guy in monkey suit...
Thinking about the themes raised here...in the movie "Independence Day", hostile aliens come here and nuke most major world cities...it is said of these aliens that they just move from planet to planet, parasitically extracting all of the natural resources, killing any rival life forms, and then when they are done, moving on to the next planet...my estranged husband said "jeez they sound like us!" (meaning humanity)...If my ex was an American, he would be a Republican...

Tell the wife I disagree with her analogy. Locust are more like the aliens in Independence Day. Homo Sapien, on the other hand, is the ONLY species known in nature that actually rehabilitates land and water that it uses. Even medieval farmers were smart enough to leave fields fallow for a year or two to regain their nutritive potency. Ants and the rest of the animal kingdom is what uses ALL resources until they are gone.

That's one of the fundamental flaws about environmentalism that I'll blog on later; it's fairly in-depth and jaw-dropping for your average tree hugger. Like being told that your daddy's real name is Bezelebub or something. LOL!!!

The basic premise and foundation of the Environmental Movement (to coin a phrase) is that "Mother Earth" is not really a habitat that is inhabited by literally millions of diverse species. Rather "Mother Earth" is AN ORGANISM itself. Even replete with it's own sexuality (female, of course....), personality, emotions, needs, etc., etc.....by typecasting "Mommy Earth" as some human-pregnant-mom-to-be, it hits all the protective "Ahhhhh, mommy!!!" social triggers in our brains and it quickly becomes "The right thing to do". Just like protecting a pregnant woman is the "right thing to do".

You can probably do the math from there, and I will write a blog about this topic in the near future. What I'll close this comment with is letting you in on a very-little-known-secret.

The entire "Environmental Movement" was designed, planned, plotted, and financed in one building in the late 1950's.

The building, you ask?

Why the Kremlin.....of course.

Have a great day....

Errrr....husband. LOL!!! Sorry 'bout that, Chief...

That's okay, Tigger (lol), must tell you, in Canada where I live it is legal to be married to a member of your own gender...must really rile you Republicans, hunh? (but, yeah, I am a woman, and my ex was a guy)

Truthfully;

I know few Republicans that are homophobic or who even care one way or the other about a persons sexuality. What "riles us up" is changing the Constitution to give preferrential treatment or rights to them....or anyone for that matter. Equality is equality. Gay-marriage is simply not the issue for Republicans that Dems think it is. But it sure gets them to waste a ton of energy on it though...and that works for me. LOL!!! ;-)

how is it giving them preferential treatment or rights to them, to let them get married like straight people?, seems to me, equality means just that... But, will not argue about it...I wanted to tell all those gay people, that getting married leads to disadvantages, come tax time!!!!!

It has to do with the interpretation of the word and institution of marriage. That's the premise of the argument in the courts and voter initiatives.

My own personal viewpoint is more along the lines of a comedian. Let them get married...I personally don't care one whit....it's just a ton of comedic material for me watching two queens fight it out in divorce court!!! LMAO!!!

Watching two men slug it out in front of Judge Judy over which one gets the red dress would make me laugh to tears...

Oink!
Some of the people getting married are women...your bias is showing, buddy.
And what is funny aabout divorce, I would like to know...it's always sad, no matter who is going through it.

I know this is weird, and you just "got me", ....because you're right. When I think of the term "homosexual", I automatically think of two guys playing hide-the-sausage. I never think of two women.

Now isn't that odd? Is it bias or conditioning, or simple experience?

When I was a kid, my Ma married a well-to-do guy when I was about 17 years old. So we moved to a beach house in Laguna Beach, Cali. At the time, (pre-AIDS) Laguna was about 70% gay. Mostly males.

As a senior in high school who had never even met a "gay person" in my entire life, it was quite the shock to suddenly be surrounded by men in pink spandex that were constantly and overtly trying to pick up teenage boys for illegal sex acts (not to mention the drug trafficking). It was so bad that we used to make our girlfriends hide in the bushes when we were hitchhiking up and down Pacific Coast Hwy going from one beach to the other. If the girls in the bikini's didn't get out of sight....we didn't get a ride and had to walk. Truth.

Perhaps this is where my "bias" comes in? I dunno....

On the other hand, most of those "guys" in pink spandex are all dead now and have been for quite some time.

Oh;

And I've been through two very nasty divorces. I think EVERY ONE should have an ex. Gives one character AND a sense of humor.

Also, Divorce is living proof that Life After Death exists. So be careful what you bash.

;-)

Speaking of divorce...ugh! But then divorce isn't the issue..marriage is.
On a more serious note if you really want a good laugh check out the video of Audrey wolf. It's revolting to me. Where does the insanity end? It's sad. I have never seen such pathetic people in need of importance and recognition. RSE reminds me of kindergarten. A bunch of kids with their hands raised hoping to be called on. The essence of RSE.

lynn;

That was exactly my take and the words I used when describing the school after I had attended it myself.

"This is kindergarten for parapsychology."

And can you provide the link for the video of Audrey. I'd love the laugh!!!

Hi Lynn,

Yes, please share the link of the video you're referring to, with Audrey in it.

Whatcha
(who has been married once, coming up on a 33 year anniversary very soon, and ten children later =-)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7170631950410989401&q=ramtha%27s+school&total=14&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6

""Whatcha
(who has been married once, coming up on a 33 year anniversary very soon, and ten children later =-) ""

Congratulations to you and yours! You deserve a nice, long vacation with your spouse! Ten children - what a wonderful, lovely holiday season it must be when you're all together. I wished I had more siblings, for that reason. And you "survived and graduated" RSE with all intact. Now THAT is a real treasure and indicator of your stellar inner being. I wish you all the best in all that exists.

Love is True/TRUTH. You got it, babe!

G2G said, "And you "survived and graduated" RSE with all intact."

Yes, I did. We're all intact. But we paid dearly, make no mistake. I've never even posted on this forum or FACTNet about things along that line that I could say.

At this time, I choose not to.

Suffice it to say that hubby has been Very Patient - maybe too patient. One of my kids was not so patient and we are just now patching our relationship back together. That young adult child will be here for Christmas. That's a miracle in itself.

By the way, that child also attended RSE, and thought it was bull**** from the start. I should have listened to my kid !!!

http://www.psitek.net/index2.html

Here is a lot of FREE Books that ALL have the same informtion in them that JZ Talks about....

Take your pick. and by the way... save your money it is free...

Smile.

Why are we all "talking"? At what point do we all take responsibility for ourself and move on? Or are we as pathetic as judith? Is it about truth...or EGO?
Individual image?
Ever hear of Richard Bach? Jonathon Livingston seagull? Simplicity? In the absence of greed? And,Or, the need for recognition? What's the agenda?
TWe all went to RSE with our heart in our hands. However, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to "hear" judy. I have never met such a turn-off. "VICTIM AT LARGE"! If THAT isn't a "red flag"...what is? She's a victim looking for a place to happen "Joan of arc at large". And, all of us bought into it. When in fact, who is she really?
A woman that found a way to scam others so she can be important. It is pathetic at best.Her mental illness is an embarrassment to us all. For having thrown our lots in w/her in the firsrt place.
My question to you is this: what do you hope to gain...or lose?
Why would YOU w/ALL YOUR TRAINING GO TO SUCH A PLACED...IF NOT TO SERVE your OWN NEESD?
wHO CARES WHO YOUR FATHER IS? Who cares about all the garbage of who is who? "If" you are a trained "Navy Seal" why..HOW did you end up at the "ranch" n the first place?
Apparently you have it all? What is your dismay? That YOU were not recognized? Ignorance only recogizes it's self. Did you..DO you honestly think that anything YOU have to say is important, was important to a woman who had come into power? Looking for HER own importance? A woman that is beyond emotion and conscience? Because of her own need and greed? At what point5 do we all grow and take responsibility for ourself?
I congrat you on your card carrying repudican stance. However, if you're hung up on THAT as an "i"dentity apparently you havn't gone any where and are just ****** off that a shrewd woman ripped you off of your "royalties"? It is mazing to me what people fight over. As far as JZ Knight is concerned..YES she is a fraud...in my opinion. And, I am not a rocket scientist...or an ego maniac. Perpaps it's why I was able to spot her from the git-go. It's called "siplicity" Anyone with an honest heart knows a lie when they hear it. What's YOUR CLAIM TO FAME? tHAT YOU DIDN'T GET YOUR ROYALTIES? What's your agenda? T o make the world a better place..or be recognized?
With your credentials why did you go to RSE?

magpi;

Appropriate screen name, methinks.

First of all, climb off your bandwagon. I'm not your **** enemy, and you don't have the right to question my credentials or my experiences. Sorry about that. Get a few medals yourself and contact me in person and maybe we can talk. Otherwise....forget it. This old dog don't hunt anymore.

I was ASKED to come to this board and SHARE my experiences. I have done so. People HAVE ASKED me about my background, and since it would appear to be unique by comparison, I have done so.

For the Record: Most people (like 95% plus) in the Yelm area find my background fascinating.....so much so that I've been extremely reluctant to talk about it, since misconception seems to rule the day here on Earth. However, with enthusiastic prompting by individuals like David McCarthy, I have made a change and decided to share my experiences at the "Ranch" with others.

Sue me.......

Yes, JZ sold my book at her stores, and yes, I was never compensated....like most authors arenormally compensated for their work when it sells. Yes, I am bitter over that.

In short, I DON'T appreciate your attitude or your pigeon-holing of me. You post as if I am the enemy. I know to JZ, ....I am. But why am I getting all this heat on this message board? Because I can write, do so, and have opinions???

Please......stuff it.

Tyger: another fine example of your berating someone who does not agree with you.
David did not invite you to come here to divide and conquer-that is an age old form used by JZ.

Can you NOT play nice?

Tree;

If "playing nice" means that I present a point or a topic WITHOUT PERSONAL ATTACKS and get responses that ARE PERSONAL ATTACKS and am supposed to "be allowing" of this (where have I heard that term before?) in the interests of "playing nice"....then the answer is "no", I won't do that.

And it's not my fault that notions that FILL the entire New Age movement (and co-incidentally taught at RSE) are deserving of ridicule and laughter. How exactly AM I to take "theories" about Liliputians digging themselves up from the ground or George Bush (I thought he was supposed to be so stupid) actually making deals with aliens?

With compassion? With concern? With some level of seriousness? Why should I legitimacize hilarity?

The topics I posted were a general reflection and commentaries on various aspects of the "New Age movement" which ALSO happens to dovetail with the "Environmental Movement" which ALSO finds many similarities with what is taught at RSE.

Yet, I've been berated over my personal writing style....my use of metaphors...and now my "personality". THAT is what is typical to the Internet....but ONLY typical from one side of the political spectrum, and I'm sure you can name it without a hint.

So what "heat" are you referring to that I can't handle....exactly?

I have never written on forums where I had to "be such-and-such" a way. And I've never attacked a person where I wasn't defending myself first.

Which you seem to be asking me to forego.

Not going to happen.

You are missing the point. The question is..if you are so importantant and know so much....HOW did you end up at the ranch?
I am not saying you are wrong. I would be ****** off too. The question is..how did you get duped(as we all did)? What was your intent? WHY did you go there?
It's a simple question.

Tyger, you have avoided answering Magpi's question and I am interested in your answer to "Why did you go to RSE"?

I have never been and would never go, it's my partner thats involved in the school, it is actually impossible for me to understand why any intelligent confident person would have a need to be part of a group like that.

You seem to have good self awareness and confidence, what on earth drew you to the "teachings" in the first place?

Aussiegirl;

I will gladly tell you, and apologize for perhaps being remiss in not mentioning it before in previous posts or comments. It's a story I've repeated far too often for my own liking.

I am what you would term a "disillusioned Christian". While raised in the traditional Christian teachings (my father was a deacon and my mother a Sunday School teacher and the lead in the church choir when I was a boy), I was also what you would call a "prodigy child". All I will say in this format is that I taught myself to read by age 4 (to my parents great surprise and concern), and "practiced reading" on the home Collier's encyclopedia and the Bible. This once got me grounded for a month for reading "Great Expectations" by Charles Dickens at age 8 instead of playing an infantile game of tag with "the boys" in the street...by mom, of course... This also ended up in me questioning the Bible with much seriousness by age 12. The available scholarship tended to deny critical points in the dogma....and I was left without answers.

Left without resources other than myself, I "turned within". And what did I find?

Lo and behold, I found human nature (aka behavior) and logic. Turns out that logic, when applied, nearly always won the day....far as I could see, anyway.

I adhered to my Christian beliefs, shaky as they were, for a good chunk of my 20's. Then my mother got into this New Age BS. I attempted to debunk her, but instead embarked myself into a journey of material I had never witnessed before.

It was eye-opening for me...but for reasons I'm uncomfortable to detail here. None-the-less, I was equally dismayed at the charlatans and out-and-out frauds that populated the "movement", as it were.

Yet still I searched. I longed for more information. My mother and aunt promised me that this "White Book" would provide it. I gave it a shot.

And I liked the material. Who wouldn't on face value. I was suspect of the medium (i.e. channelling) but I said, "hey...if the material is this good...who cares?"

This was in the late 1980's.

I saw JZ and her act once...in San Diego in 1988...and that was about it. I went back to real life.

But I always kept "a line open"...and watched...seeing what would happen. My mother and my aunt became full-fledged students at that time...moving to Yelm, the whole 9 yards.

When my second marriage dissolved, I found myself at my grandfathers old place with mom and an uncle. I will freely admit that at this point of my life I was extra-ordinarily vulnerable. Mom wanted me to go back to "the Ranch" with her. She was so excited that I do it.

"With what you know and what you've been doing...blah...blah...blah...blah..." ........on and on and on and on....

So I went. I had nothing to lose.

And I was suspect from the word "go" and my suspicions were borne out in spades. She's a fraud.

She can't master simple confirmation of a single thing she's ever said or claimed. After twenty years or so...that'd be what we call "Failing The Litmus Test", folks. And that's how I ended up at the ranch.

One thing we have all most likely learned is that we are responsible for our choices---unless we are "brainwashed" by the big gal. Tyger, even though you had already experienced Judith, you still had a choice to say "no" to both your mother and your aunt. I am a health professional, as are many others here - and what I've experienced is when people - men and women - continue to subtly or otherwise give away their own choices, saying "mom yelled at me because I did this" or "I did this because of my mom" - it might be telling of a a need for a deeper look within of the nature of the relationship with the females in the family.

I don't think anyone here is disturbed by your experiences, for what you have experienced is invaluable and we can all learn from it. What is annoying to the opposite sex are the continuing "putdowns" to versions of "women" a la :"mommy earth" - and also to political parties other than one's own. It might be your style, but it detracts from the subject at hand.

Were someone to post, "all ex military guys are just blowhards" - okay, once in a joke - it's one thing. Maybe you can reread your posts and see where the putdowns are to we females. Do we really need this? Is is conducive to healing? Were you a medic in the military? Open any chests with rib spreaders? BECAUSE women are "tough," the euphemisms used on this board serve only to place women beneath the "alpha" male, yet again. Again, I cannot stress enough how valuable your input is, but can you offer your experiences to us without the references that are indeed dismissive to women, other political parties, etc., because we ARE still human. RSE did not rob us of that. People might feel this is about what is "politically acceptable speech," but nothing can be further from the truth. The manner is indeed condescending to women, and

I AM HOPING YOU, DAVID, AND YOU, JOE, CAN SEE THIS.

How can anyone come together in peace and healing when women are consistently reminded by the usage of certain verbage? A spade might be a spade, but "Mommy's" for the most part, nurture, love, give up careers, drive a hundred miles a day - you name it, for their children. And we don't get ticked off over coat hangers (To Wolf). My German Shepherd Schutzhund offers more respect to me.

Could it be that the "Gladys" story Judith tells - of blaming one's mother - is so? I have a writer ex-friend who was in military intel. He HAD to be right, always. I HAD to get a restraining order for that reason alone-because HE knew my feelings more than I did, afterall, he was in intelligence. It's not surprising he attempted to "own" me, when I heard the story of how he hated his mother so much that he was elated when she died. Something isn't right there. He constantly dissed women. So why be with one? Look, it's not that bad here. But it detracts from the topic at hand, and women and those who don't agree with us ought be allowed such. Is it necessary to add a "put down" in the mix, however? Don't you other men notice this at all? Or is the forum turning into a "good ole boys club?"

We sloshed through the mud, the creek, the tank, the whole shebang. We were knocked over by huge guys in the field, got up and kept going. So I respectfully request, respect the women who are here. We've been through the same as you have at RSE. And our goals ought be one.


Wolfie - you'll have to ask my kids if I was a "mommy dearest." That would be their determination, (however, I indeed used wire hangars for clothing!) I'm just grateful and happy they call me everyday and tell me they love both me and their father. (still married - 23 years and counting).

Maybe you need to be a woman to understand how the subtle remarks affect even young girls. We raise them to be strong these days, thank the higher power. Even so, they are ever aware of dissing women. Just turn on the radio and listen to some of today's music.

RESPECT WOMEN. And for those women who think it's a non-issue, look around at the pre-teen girls, and how they are so overly eager to please the "young men." It's imperative for the fathers in their lives to encourage them and make them feel secure. Otherwise, they'll have "lipstick parties" and worse. Self esteem is a HUGE issue. So even small remarks are extremely important. Yes we know you're big he-men. . But again, you were at RSE as well as the women.

Can we get back to discussing RSE, without the remarks?
A lot of work I know was put into getting this forum off the ground. There are posts that are indeed condescending to women of late. I need not go into further detail.

Intended with an "elevated" heart.

Ok guys... speaking very.. very softly....

Just let each person speak. so many here are still semi-supporting uncounsciously the RSE organization... so toes are steped on sometimes.

Aussies girl can not speak from the point of view of EXPERIENCE / WISDOM because... you have never been there.

So it is difficult to communicate with someone who has NOT exactly WALKED in the shoes of those who have.... just like Hillary and Bill Clinton... Hillary does NOT have the Experience of Bill... and Aussiegirl does not havce the EXPERIENCE of our walking. Smile.

I personally find Tyger very refreshing. I love calling a spade a spade... but of course this is not the spiritually correct way to be.

If you get your ego out of it ... and just let the energy be, we can all learn from one another.

Don't take it so personally, it is just energy.

Softly. Personally, I do not care WHAT education you have...... all of it is YOUR MIND / mental BS. So you highly educated ones... PLEASE take a breath.. and simmer down your EDUCATED EGO MIND.

There is a big difference in EXPERIENCE and EDUCATION.

Education is learned vomited information... experiece creates wisdom of your life by WALKING in the shoes of experience.

Why take any of this personally... just share...

Smile.

Preface: Everything in this post is MY OPINION, and not to be misconstrued as telling anyone “how to” or “what the right way is”. There’s even some humor within, if you can read it.

Tyger,

Obviously there are readers/posters on this forum who believe you are women bashing. There really is no need for that, is there ? If so, what is the need you see ?

G2G, I enjoyed your thoughtful post, and the fact that you did not resort to complaining about a wrong you see, by exemplifying another wrong (bashing in return).

Since there are a bunch of people posting, who are of course, going to see things through their own lense, I can add yet another viewpoint to this mix.

While I can understand why some people could see "women bashing" in Tyger's posts, and some of Wolfman's, I'm not reading them that way. What I'm reading is the association with the New Age, which he is pointing out as garbage.

Tyger, let's just ask you directly about your intent and personality? Do you consider yourself to be women bashing ? If not, since at least to some people it is coming across that way, what do you think about that ? You seem to be very forthright, so if you're a misogynist pig and proud of it, feel free to admit it so we can be clear about where you're coming from. Are you, are you ? Please do tell!

I agree with Lavender; I personally find Tyger's posts refreshing for the most part. I don't agree with everything he says, nor do I need to. Have you ever participated in a healthy debate ? SO much can be learned from debating ISSUES, without attacking people. If a debate is about needing to be right, not much can be learned. If a debate is about truly wanting to get to the core of an issue, and learn the truth, much can be learned on all “sides”. There are rules for debates, because people don’t always have it in them to stay on Issue. Instead, they get their personal buttons pressed and then start in with the emotional attacks, which can destroy the debate unless it’s steered back on track.

We all know there is a multitude of ways that we can experience prejudice in various shades of ugly. One that I am reading (and have in the past, quietly) on this forum is the prejudice against those people with advanced education. Lavender's previous post is a case in point.

If we heard a child prodigy who plays (for example) a piano at a very young age, we'd appreciate the human potential and enjoy the music. Or, we'd be jealous, or threatened, or some other Ugly. If we meet a person who can do math equations in their head - advanced ones - we are Wowed. Or Ugly with some form of prejudice. Or both.

There is a big difference between experience and education ? How so ? I would say that with education comes experience. That is, in part, what mentorships are about, as well as practical work and work study programs. The two things are not mutually exclusive, imo.

Lavendar quote: “Softly. Personally, I do not care WHAT education you have...... all of it is YOUR MIND / mental BS. So you highly educated ones... PLEASE take a breath.. and simmer down your EDUCATED EGO MIND.”

Lavender quote: “I personally find Tyger very refreshing. I love calling a spade a spade... but of course this is not the spiritually correct way to be.”

Okay. I see how this works. “OF COURSE? This is the spiritually CORRECT way to be ?” I respectfully disagree. In my whatchamacallit world, and SPEAKING FOR MYSELF, I determine my own set of mores and values. While I may not agree with everything that anyone on this forum posts, and while they may not agree with everything I post, there is a difference between speaking for oneself, and expecting or insinuating that others “should be” upholding any particular set of beliefs. Be it politics, religion, breast versus bottlefeeding, to circumcise or not, to eat meat or not, to have a family bed (children sleep with parents), to spank or not, to send your kids to private school, public school, or homeschool, to vaccinate or not, to go to college or not – all of these things I have seen hotly debated. If we end up with one MOLD that we all must Correctly Fit Into like good little pigeons, it’s time … imo … to move.

Softly equates citing education as mental b.u.l.l.s.h.i.t. ? Who are you to tell anyone to simmer down their “educated ego mind “? What I heard in your statement is fragile ego. Whether or not it comes attached to “education” is irrelevant.

If we do not have any advanced degree for the academic world that some people work hard to earn, and we encounter those who have, it's simple to discredit them on any level. There are plenty of people with advanced degrees that aren't ego-inflated puffballs. I know people from an assortment of different “walks of life” who have heads the size of Mt. Everest. Some of them are self-starters ; having their own business. To make a blanket statement about academia as being full of those who have overly inflated egos, or the ability (slam) to only vomit learning, I say that’s a short-sighted view. All of the advances that have been made in science and other areas of our society, as have been posted by JTR, have been made largely from those people who are studied…and applied in research. We all benefit from their gift. If a person has the ability to play as an accomplished piano player by the age of 6, or do complex math in their heads as a youth, or has the gift of intellect that is put to use in scientific research, or another area, why the slams ? Why marginalize what they do. Respect them with the respect you feel you deserve.

We all have something to give in this life. Those with stunning IQ’s, who make the most of them, with advanced degrees in complex subjects, who help society and perhaps the planet with their accomplishments & discoveries, deserve thanks. Those who live any walk of life and do so with integrity, and honesty, also add to the positive evolution of this planet, imo.

Some of us have doctorates in our field and opt to spend most of our time raising ten children, wearing many hats in the community, having started a number of corporations, and doing plenty of volunteer work, also. Busy, and happy. I’ve been told my education was “waste of time and money” because I don’t work full time and stick my kids in daycare. Says who ? ONLY I determine that. My education is put to use in a myriad of ways, that benefit others and even bring me income as a bonus. Not by the standard of convention, but by the standard of what I choose to live with as I walk in my own shoes.

Hi What...

Ooooooops

Smile.

No, you have taken my post to a totally different place than I wrote it.

I have a Masters in business so I do appreciate the effort of education. That was NOT the point.

Sorry if your button was pushed.

Smile.

and I am sure everyone READS into post what they want.

Let's Kiss and make up....

Also I see the words Education.... and Experience.

You can Educate someone with lots of MEMORIZED data and they can test and do very well.

As a Nursing Teacher, We must do CLINICAL EXAMS for all State Positions in addition to WRITTEN Exams.

Clinical Exams means you physically DO the skills. So in addition to reading a book and doing well on a written test.. you must PRACTICE the SKILLS and be able to DEMONSTRATE the skills.

Big difference.

You can read about a riding a bike... but one day, you must RIDE to know HOW TO TRULY ride the bike.

Education can also be a way to DRAW OUT from one that which is hidden within. Take the person who learns to play a musical instrument.

Many can play Oboe... but SOME can NATURALLY make an OBOE SING.... effortlessly.

Smile.

Yes, I see what you're saying.

More later....

whatcha;

No, I don't think I'm "bashing women", or chicks, or totatoes, or whatever word you want to use.

I call it as I see it. If everyone is calling it "Mommy Earth" when it has no breasts or genitals to prove that....then I take note and illustrate that. It would be just as absurd if they called it "Daddy Earth". But they don't call it that....do they?

I find the entire topic sophomoric and boring.

On the other hand, I've heard this whining before, but only since America became a nation of metrosexuals and proud of it. LOL!!!! (oppppps....I did it again!)

"tomatoes".....that's what I meant...."tomatoes". (LOL....) ;-)

My two cents -- I did not read "women bashing" in general into anyone's posts ...

I think that Aussiegirl -- and myself, and other family members of current and ex students -- can totally relate and share experiences about RSE ... It may not be the exact same perspective as the current student, but it is a perspective none the less... Same ball of wax, just a different side....

I'm still not quite sure how or why most posts on this forum devolve into personality profile analysis of the poster, but maybe it's just part of the process... I for one, as I am sure many others agree, don't give a rat's *** what any one else here thinks of me or my life...It is silly to make judgments about people as a whole from posts on a bulletin board... very one dimensional.... If I can't speak the truth of how I feel / see things / RSE here.. then it is completely pointless... The idea of everyone sitting around holding hands singing kumbayah really rubs me the wrong way... People are different, they disagree... There wouldn't be a lot of honesty or truth w/o disagreement.

So there...

PS -- Tyger you made me laugh when you referred to my post about you and your "hooey" as "heat"...(wink)

There have been people who have referred to the patriarchal society they believe we live in, and one point of criticism is our history...HIS-story. Doubt that is anything new to any of us.

Then, there is (imo) the equally imbalanced view of Mother Earth.

It cracks me up that the New Age promotes "oneness", when upon evaluation, there are still these viewpoints which are upheld.

There's still a long way to go, imo.

Marie;

"He who laughs most wins." Tyger, 1997

But what is there to win? And what is the contest? Imo, I view this world as one, and that even includes the big bad JZ (excluding whatever is "coming through" during her "channeling and/or acting)." When we see us all as one - all "human" with families, jobs, bills, (regardless of what country one lives in) -when we see us all as one, how can there continue to be hatred, wars, even laughing with contempt at another?

'Tis always the season to be humane.

G2G......

The point is, regards to laughing, is..... can you laugh at yourself and your own limited mind patterns?

I known I can. But wait a minute! But If am right and all of you are wrong. How can I be laughing at myself?

LOL!!!

What do you mean I dont have the right to question your "crenditals"...or medals. Yes I do. By the way I do have my own medals. Navy seals aren't exactly the most desirable people on earth. Any more than cops are. So, if THAT'S your crendentials...you're barking up the wrong tree.
What people have you helped? How have YOU made the world a better place? You're crying about ROYALTIES?
Let's see your crendentials. POST it! Anyone can say anything..on net. DONT tell me I dont have the right to challenge YOU!

Magpi,

You are welcome to contact me.

David.

LARSE@fairpoint.net

magpi;

I just checked. You STILL don't have the right to challenge me.

Sigh... big egos make loud noises when they fall.

What's going on here? If I didn't know better, I'd believe this was an RSE "inflitration." I can see the snickering, "EMF will fall by itself by the bickering which occurs online." It's inevitable, and sad, for those who worked so very hard to create this.

Instead of a forum for healing, imo, it's turned into some sort of testosterone trip. I ask again, for a moment, to consider the verbage without any emoticons, etc., that in this genre, perhaps "triggers" are being set--and I do hope I am wrong, but it "feels" deliberate in at least certain cases, particularly when the "triggers" have been made known. If it's in jest, perhaps using emoticons would help. How many remember the verbally abusive attacks of the red guards and Ramthat? It wasn't that long ago for me. Consider also, the numerous people who were in abusive relationships during their lifetimes attempting to overcome those events along with growing through RSE.

Is there any attempt at understanding, or is it simply "fun' or comedic to insert the nasties within a post? Tree recognized it; others do as well. To me, I don't care if someone is JC himself. If we cannot respect one another and respectfully agree to disagree, this forum serves no useful purpose, other than for those who enjoy inserting the "triggers" to further hurt those recovering from the abuse. Someone with intellect and commonsense certainly is aware of what they are doing.

If we can question the great prophets, can we not also question other posters - respectfully? I'm finding, in my situation, the forum has degenerated into pleading to deafened ears, to those who care not, as to how the words are "teasingly abusive," to put it mildly. It's so sad to watch this. I imagine we all come to a point, as we did in RSE when we left, that we decide perhaps here is no longer helping when more time is spent asking for respect.

Ladies, those of you who have never been involved in a verbally, condescending relationship (other than your time at RSE), perhaps you do not see the demeanor of which I am speaking. Perhaps it's a "trigger" to me. And in that case, this is no better than RSE since it serves to cause more pain and reliving the RSE as well as a past abusive relationship.

Tree, I heard you, and I hear you. However, others with differing experiences might not recognize of which I speak.

I am ever grateful for finding this place and the unfathomable hours those who created this forum have engendered in their efforts. You are "angels" - if they exist. You've helped me along my road and I found a place that understood what I experienced.
Just as we don't use the verbage "so be it," "just do it" - triggers here, the tone and mockery now in motion is toxic to my healing.

Thank you David, Whatcha and Joe.

With a loving heart -

~Om Mani Padme Hum~ -

Thank you G2G...
and everyone that is weathering this storm...

Your words are taken to heart, mind and action..

David.

G2G,

As David said, and I think you would expect of us, we are aware of things that are going on, and are working on them. Please bear with us, and have patience while we're handling things.

Thanks !

I knew as soon as Tyger started in on his Republican/Democrat, Liberal/Conservative crap that this was a divisive thread. This type of rhetoric is rarely informative usually destructive. Tyger is guilty of the logical error of generalization in most of his posts regardless of his claim of affinity for logic. I have found that an overbearing and abrasive man is usually that way because his is afraid of something.
Tyger KNOWS about Global Warming, The Environmentalists, and all things political and New Age. Yet his forum is not NBC or FOX but EMF.
If a man has an opinion and his thinking is based in science he must be aware that his consideration of what is true is at best a probability. That means in any opinion you "may" be wrong. Tyger does come off as not being aware of this. That being said, his statements must be taken as that of a neophyte to any endeavor. There is a passion and great enthusiasm that comes with a little knowledge and lots of zeal.
We know Tyger has said he has medals, was a seal etc.
The men I know who I respect rarely, if ever talk about Nam or what they did in any war. It is not something you deal with outside of a Vet's Hall with the civilian population, unless you have other reasons. IMO.
My point in all this is that I thought this forum was a thread to bring down jz with facts and planning. I had my ex look at the site to try and sway her to get out of rse. She wrote back, said she looked and thought it was "silly". So that's done. Let's move on with the mission at hand and leave the politics to the politicians and the science to the scientists. jz don't care what you believe but she loves to see dissention here.
If jz or her buddies happens to read this, "go fu*k yourself"

IMHO, the main goal of this this forum is to provide support
for those who went through RSE, to help them recover from this
experience, by sharing opinions and experiences relating to RSE.
I don't believe this is a thread to BRING DOWN anybody but rather
to BRING UP each other by sharing and caring for each other.

PEACE

I stand corrected

Hi Druid,

I can agree with that. The purpose of this site is for support and information for ex-students primarily, and those loved ones who need support with family/friends still current in RSE.

If RSE/JZ gets "brought down" as a natural side effect of that, well, whatever. It's not the motive.
Given enough rope, they'll do that to themselves, imo.

Okay, off to the store with the kidlets to start buying groceries for Christmas Eve/Day meals. Let the baking and cooking begin, LOL.

watch : "If RSE/JZ gets "brought down" as a natural side effect of that, well, whatever. It's not the motive.
Given enough rope, they'll do that to themselves, imo."

Big smile

I should have mentioned in my post "those loved ones who need
support with family/friends still current in RSE."
as Whatchamacallit did.

Like Bud and Aussiegirl and many more , including myself,
even though I've attended a beginner's retreat, but in a
context far more different than it is at the "ranch". I
haven't get as deeply into it as my ex has.

I've learned so much on the phenomenon of cults since I
read this forum ! Thanks to everyone participating in a
way or another.

Peace on earth

Druid,

Something you said just made me think about how the people who attend events in other countries don’t get the same experience as those who go to Yelm. I’ve heard, the non-Yelm events are not a real accurate picture of what it’s like here. Actually, some people have posted that they were lured in, by attending event elsewhere and so they came to Yelm, only to be shocked and dismayed at the stark contrast. Well, I guess if they’re lucky, they get the shock as early on as possible and move on. That ‘slowly boiling the frogs’ effect doesn’t work the same as it does if you’ve only started and continued, by going to Yelm events, it seems to me.